AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?

[IamSarah]

My local rape crisis centre offers a dedicated support group for trans and non-binary survivors and a women's group open to anyone who identifies as a woman.

After a male (presenting as male) turned up in the women's group I requested an additional group for women who were born women. This request was turned down and I was told that group support isn't for me. AIBU?

YABU: You shouldn't need an additional, exclusive group for biological women

YANBU: Under these circumstances, a single sex group just for biological women was a reasonable request

@IamSarah

I explained to them exactly what happened in the group and this is how they responded.

As you can see what I said wasn't addressed or taken seriously at all.

"compassionate and brave" in the extract ....

I am sure that reminds me of something??

Is it inclusively excluding nonbelievers using a mantra??

I went to access essential health services with a mate who is poor, from an extremely excluded racial group, and disabled, and she didn't know how to fill the forms in. I mean seriously. I had to explain them so she could apply. Her response, "FFS of course I'm a fucking woman, why do they think I need [procedure]?" I assume they think they're being inclusive but she might have walked out if I hadn't been there

Yes I've had similar experiences accompanying women at the sharp end of this "inclusiveness". You assumption is a lot more charitable than mine has ever been, faced with virtue signalling professionals congratulating themselves on their righteousness - so much more important than pleb class women's right to healthcare.

HoardingSamphireSaurus thank you for your posts. I'm finding them very informative.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus how can I make a donation to your service?

[quote ClaudiaJ1]**@Stompythedinosaur* I would say that if an individual can't access group support alongside the other woman using the service then it is reasonable to offer 1:1 support as an alternative.*

OR, if an individual can't access group support alongside the other women using the service because a male is present, then it is reasonable to offer a biological woman-only service as an alternative.[/quote]
Especially as I bet Sarah wasn't the only individual to walk out.

SolasAnla

Purgatory is a very civil poster, I tend to get snarky.
SoMizzFizzyou also appear to be attributing my post to Purgatory.

Aww, thank you! I confess I did feel rather confused, and then rather hard done by, when I read MizzFizz's responses to me. Thank you for trying to clear it up.

[quote Runningupthecurtains]@HoardingSamphireSaurus how can I make a donation to your service?[/quote]
The best way would be to look at provision near you, Read their remit, see what you think. Support them, challenge them... make them better!

We are all stronger if we are what we say we are and can build better facilities for all.

@HoardingSamphireSaurusoard
Let's just say I probably live near IamSarah so giving local is problematic.

I would like to commend IamSarah for starting this thread. 2000 votes and still 3% disagree. But 97% agree.

I have noticed in general lately that the narrative pushed, even 6 months ago on this AiBU board, of ‘you are all just extremists and not representative at all of the mainstream view’ has almost disappeared. It must be very hard for some people to realise that they, themselves, are the minority but cannot use that projection of old anymore to validate their own extreme point of view.

Thank again for your bravery Sarah. What you will achieve hopefully, is a system that provides better care (suited to group’s needs) for all.

[quote Runningupthecurtains]@HoardingSamphireSaurusoard
Let's just say I probably live near IamSarah so giving local is problematic.[/quote]
That would be a problem

I am many miles away.

You could look at DASH. They, to the best of my knowledge, are quite like us. Set up to help men, women and children as they, the client, need, are user centred/responsive as part of their remit.

Thanks I will have a look later.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

SolasAnla

Purgatory is a very civil poster, I tend to get snarky.
SoMizzFizzyou also appear to be attributing my post to Purgatory.

Aww, thank you! I confess I did feel rather confused, and then rather hard done by, when I read MizzFizz's responses to me. Thank you for trying to clear it up.

I believe the expression is punching down.

I hate the expression punching down in most context, but use it here as a Trojan horse to the next paragraph.

When it comes to violence one of the first lessons females women and girls learn is that they are more physically vulnerable to it than males men and boys. Not the final outcome; but that the physical risk of being harmed in return can act as a deterrent, so the counter-threat is so much less if the victim is -female a woman or girl.
With rape or sexual assault when it's a female woman or girl of reproductive age attacked by a male man or boy there are additional fear around reproductive issues pregnancy/sexual health.
Historic female women and girl socialisation blamed the -female woman or girl for her own attack. Excusing the male's man's or boy's actions support the self protection chant it can't happen to me and anyway males men and boys I know aren't like that.

There are so many layers around social expectation many encapsulated in that short text from IamSarah's "friend".
Women use words as a subistute to being violent and as a defence against violence. If you change the meaning of an important word that line of defence falls. Did the edits female v women and girls male v men and boy tweek how you read the paragraph?
When the Trojan horse succeeds your home is in flames, useful women and children enslaved in foreign lands, the survivors bury the men, women and children who got in the way.
Would insert a high horse comment be OTT??

Anyway I think it is important to point out when there is an attempt to undermine someone who posts from a IMO a very neutral position.
It's DARVO (by excuse the example) trying to pick out the weakest Filly* in a herd as you remained neutral in your counter argument.
(*Note I avoided Mare as it's used as both to complement or insult women)

@MizzFizz was able to successfully directly @ people before the "generic tearful" statement.
Then
@Feelingoktoday's question at 23:48 gets ignored.

@EricCartmansUnderpants's post at 23:56 is totally ignored.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken at 00:31 ignored.

@Ereshkigalangcleg gets a no silly, I am not posting here about IamSarah's situation reply.

And (conveniently IMO) the misdirected post undermines your post about it being lawful to exclude males from a survivor group because the service did nothing "wrong" except not doing the research.

Perhaps I am doing MizzFizz disservice, if so I am happy to correct any misstatement.

Thank you IamSarah and others who have explained why their pain should be recognised within the provision for services.

Thank you to those who work and provide services to help heal the pain.

And thank you for those who posted to explain why they voted no or believe in TWAW. I don't agree with some or all of the beliefs expressed but a civil discussion is very much appreciated.

Can someone explain to me in what way transwomen are women? Other than in name.

Fairydust. Or something.

@DdraigGoch

Can someone explain to me in what way transwomen are women? Other than in name.

Fairydust. Or something.

Because woman ceases meaning "adult, human, female" but know one can actually tell you want the word means instead because It's complicated any definition will amount to tired clichés, out dated stereotypes and will undoubtedly exclude some women from the definition of women.

So why are we colluding with it in calling people transwomen and transmen? Why not just transgender person?

@Helleofabore

I would like to commend IamSarah for starting this thread. 2000 votes and still 3% disagree. But 97% agree.

I have noticed in general lately that the narrative pushed, even 6 months ago on this AiBU board, of ‘you are all just extremists and not representative at all of the mainstream view’ has almost disappeared. It must be very hard for some people to realise that they, themselves, are the minority but cannot use that projection of old anymore to validate their own extreme point of view.

Thank again for your bravery Sarah. What you will achieve hopefully, is a system that provides better care (suited to group’s needs) for all.

Some people do still try to insist that Mumsnet is an outlier, not reflective of the vast majority of people.

I can't help but think that is an opinion often coming from people who don't count women as people ...

@Throckmorton

So why are we colluding with it in calling people transwomen and transmen? Why not just transgender person?

These two groups are, obviously, very different. Despite everything, most people understand we do still need to differentiate by sex.

@Throckmorton

So why are we colluding with it in calling people transwomen and transmen? Why not just transgender person?

Here? In part because of the terminology that is and is not allowed by MNHQ.

In real life? I am self employed and work with charitable organizations that might be affected. It's taken me about 10 years to type here that the volunteer work I do is not only in a food bank. I wanted to prevent any fallout.

It pervades network meetings and groups and is just bloody everywhere!

Another pernicious aspect of this: females are forced to collude in their own oppression to quite an extent, in order to be permitted to discuss it at all. If they do not so collude they may not speak at all.

This is not an equal burden by any means.

We should probably stop colluding in all that, and refer instead to transgender people

Ignore that second post - I thought my first post hasn't posted.

I currently feel more angry and upset with them than my perpetrators which I know is irrational.
It's perfectly rational. The perpetrators didn't stab you in the back.

I've had nearly 3,000 votes now across here and Twitter.

Overwhelmingly people support my request for a female only group.

I'm wondering whether to approach the centre one last time comparing the 'evidence' the CEO submitted in parliament in January (saying trans women should be actively encouraged into women's only spaces) with the results of my polling? Giving the centre one last opportunity to put it right.

Or whether to stop trying to engage with them and pursue the legal challenge.

Hmmm.

@Hont1986

I polled the Daily Mail comments section and it showed overwhelming support for ending immigration, how do I inform the government about this?

This is tired old trope and your comparison has been debunked so often on MN. It is incredibly offensive.

Please do keep posting though, because people reading posts like this see the lack of critical thinking that goes into them. It certainly isn’t the clever ‘gotcha’ you think.