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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?

564 replies

IamSarah · 08/12/2021 13:56

My local rape crisis centre offers a dedicated support group for trans and non-binary survivors and a women's group open to anyone who identifies as a woman.

After a male (presenting as male) turned up in the women's group I requested an additional group for women who were born women. This request was turned down and I was told that group support isn't for me. AIBU?

YABU: You shouldn't need an additional, exclusive group for biological women

YANBU: Under these circumstances, a single sex group just for biological women was a reasonable request

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
YouSetTheTone · 09/12/2021 22:32

Afghanistan 2021 - women aren’t allowed to be educated.
The U.K. 2021 - women who have been raped aren’t allowed single sex spaces to be counselled for their trauma.

I hope that 2022 will be better for women everywhere.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 09/12/2021 22:48

Thank you to the wonderful people on here standing up for women and especially the poster who is running single sex groups for traumatised women while also providing services for other categories of people.

However the dickpandering apologists for colonising males can fuck off to the far side of fuck and when they get there they can fuck off some more.

MizzFizz · 09/12/2021 23:31

@lifeturnsonadime @ShrillSiren I thought PP said they were " male and also male presenting" and thus assumed male presenting meant they self-identified as male. I am not trying to get into the ideology just literally not understanding what pp is saying... so the person identifies as a woman? I completely support trans inclusion but sorry I just still don't understand OP...

MizzFizz · 09/12/2021 23:33

@SolasAnla I guess I just don't understand the OP. They didn't explain why the person was allowed at the meeting... Do they identify as a woman? I just read "male" and "male presenting" just isn't clear to me what the situation was....

Feelingoktoday · 09/12/2021 23:38

[quote MizzFizz]@SolasAnla I guess I just don't understand the OP. They didn't explain why the person was allowed at the meeting... Do they identify as a woman? I just read "male" and "male presenting" just isn't clear to me what the situation was....[/quote]
It is a biological male identifying as a woman.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/12/2021 23:44

The person will have said I identify as a woman.

Male-presenting means that there were no visual cues that the person wished to be seen as a woman.

For example, this is a male-presenting biological male identifying as a woman.

AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?
MizzFizz · 09/12/2021 23:46

@Feelingoktoday AHH ok thank you. I guess the title of the OP was a hint but I just didn't put 2 and 2 together. I got a lot of gender theory info (always good to learn more) but I just really didn't get the situation.

Feelingoktoday · 09/12/2021 23:48

[quote MizzFizz]@Feelingoktoday AHH ok thank you. I guess the title of the OP was a hint but I just didn't put 2 and 2 together. I got a lot of gender theory info (always good to learn more) but I just really didn't get the situation.[/quote]
Now that you understand do you still think it is ok for a identifying woman to be in a rape group for women?

MizzFizz · 09/12/2021 23:48

@PurgatoryOfPotholes oh right! Yeah I guess that's the piece I was missing from the OP. It's a tough situation isn't it. We as humans don't trust people we don't know to begin with, then add the trauma experienced by those in a rape support group...and the trauma of being excluded for your gender identity. It's not an easy situation is it 😢

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/12/2021 23:53

They're not being "excluded for their gender identity", but because they are male sex. Identity isn't relevant.

EricCartmansUnderpants · 09/12/2021 23:56

However the dickpandering apologists for colonising males can fuck off to the far side of fuck and when they get there they can fuck off some more.

Yes. It needs to be said.

SolasAnla · 09/12/2021 23:59

[quote MizzFizz]@PurgatoryOfPotholes oh right! Yeah I guess that's the piece I was missing from the OP. It's a tough situation isn't it. We as humans don't trust people we don't know to begin with, then add the trauma experienced by those in a rape support group...and the trauma of being excluded for your gender identity. It's not an easy situation is it 😢[/quote]
So you can recognise a human with a penis after all.
(What a surprise + shocked face emoji)

Are you trying to avoid typing it?
"Someone who has been sexually assaulted should not be given single sex provision.
Adding tear drop emoji"

....

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 10/12/2021 00:02

[quote MizzFizz]@PurgatoryOfPotholes oh right! Yeah I guess that's the piece I was missing from the OP. It's a tough situation isn't it. We as humans don't trust people we don't know to begin with, then add the trauma experienced by those in a rape support group...and the trauma of being excluded for your gender identity. It's not an easy situation is it 😢[/quote]
Such issues were pre-empted with the creation of the specialist trans and non-binary group.

But now women who don't feel comfortable discussing their experiences in front of any random male human are being excluded because there is no provision for them

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 10/12/2021 00:22

Extract from explanatory guidance on the exceptions in Equality Act 2010

•The need for authenticity or realism might require someone of a particular race, sex or age for acting roles (for example, a black man to play the part of Othello) or modelling jobs.

•Considerations of privacy or decency might require a public changing room or lavatory attendant to be of the same sex as those using the facilities.

•An organisation for deaf people might legitimately employ a deaf person who uses British Sign Language to work as a counsellor to other deaf people whose first or preferred language is BSL.

•Unemployed Muslim women might not take advantage of the services of an outreach worker to help them find employment if they were provided by a man.

•A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/26/1/1/3

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 10/12/2021 00:30

That’s a hell of a ratio!

MizzFizz · 10/12/2021 02:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MizzFizz · 10/12/2021 02:36

@Ereshkigalangcleg I was referring not to this situation of being excluded for their gender identity, but for generally in our society being excluded for that reason.

MizzFizz · 10/12/2021 02:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DogsandCatsB4u · 10/12/2021 02:55

So sorry for this and you’re right, stand with you

ClaudiaJ1 · 10/12/2021 06:30

@Hont1986

there are no circumstances in which women can get what they NEED which is single sex spaces because you don't believe that women needing single sex spaces, even traumatised women have the political right to spaces for them?

I don't have a disagreement with single-sex spaces in theory. I think you should be able to offer your privately-run refuge/gym/support group to anyone you wish. If OP or anyone who agrees with her wants to set up their own space and offer it to the people of their choosing, then I believe she has a political right to it and will have my moral support.

Feminists set up these spaces through their blood, sweat, and tears, and shouldn't be told who they can and can't let in the spaces. In this case, the people who actually shed the blood, sweat, and tears have chosen to make the women's group open to all those who they feel are women, and not offer a cis-only group. If you disagree with it, set up your own.

@Hont1986 The group was set up in 1989/1990, before trans issues even came to the fore. The feminists who shed the blood, sweat and tears to create the centre are no longer around, they didn't make this call. We both know they would be horrified to learn that they are allowing male identified people in women's spaces, this was NOT what the centre was created for! The current leaders have spat in the face of those feminists who set it up
Original poster
IamSarah · 10/12/2021 06:31

@MizzFizz

That centre is the only option in the area. Trans and non-binary people (not sexual violence survivors) were consulted about what they wanted from the service which is why they have their choice of group including a dedicated trans group. Women were not consulted at all.

The group I went to was explicitly for 'self-identifying females' so I knew there could be trans women present, but it was that or nothing.

I did not expect to come across a typical male in the group with no sign of physically or socially transitioning to female.

I also did not expect to feel so shaken up by the male person smiling throughout as though it was a fun and enjoyable event.

OP posts:
Eddielzzard · 10/12/2021 07:10

They should lose a significant portion of their funding given that they're not providing a service for the demographic that experiences the most rape.

beastlyslumber · 10/12/2021 08:21

I also did not expect to feel so shaken up by the male person smiling throughout as though it was a fun and enjoyable event.

Reading that turned my stomach. How dare he? How dare anyone try and tell you this is okay?

Feelingoktoday · 10/12/2021 08:24

[quote MizzFizz]@PurgatoryOfPotholes oh right! Yeah I guess that's the piece I was missing from the OP. It's a tough situation isn't it. We as humans don't trust people we don't know to begin with, then add the trauma experienced by those in a rape support group...and the trauma of being excluded for your gender identity. It's not an easy situation is it 😢[/quote]
Are you not understanding this n purpose. They have been excluded because of the sex. Not who they are. If Father Christmas turned up he would still be excluded because the sex is male.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2021 08:27

I was referring not to this situation of being excluded for their gender identity, but for generally in our society being excluded for that reason.

Excluded from what? People are "excluded" from all kinds of things, quite reasonably.