AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?

[IamSarah]

My local rape crisis centre offers a dedicated support group for trans and non-binary survivors and a women's group open to anyone who identifies as a woman.

After a male (presenting as male) turned up in the women's group I requested an additional group for women who were born women. This request was turned down and I was told that group support isn't for me. AIBU?

YABU: You shouldn't need an additional, exclusive group for biological women

YANBU: Under these circumstances, a single sex group just for biological women was a reasonable request

I also did not expect to feel so shaken up by the male person smiling throughout as though it was a fun and enjoyable event

What is their safeguarding policy and how to they define eligibility for the group (beyond "says they are a woman").

Do they even know about trauma informed therapy?

I also did not expect to feel so shaken up by the male person smiling throughout as though it was a fun and enjoyable event.

Regardless of the sex or gender, why did the person running that session not address that issue? It’s obvious it would made everyone else uncomfortable in the room, even if they had been a woman.

I also did not expect to feel so shaken up by the male person smiling throughout as though it was a fun and enjoyable event

I completely understand, as any sane person would, why that was distressing for you. We really don't have services for women if the services not only allow this to happen but punish women with removal if they object to it.

How are women meant to interpret such behaviour other than as a man enjoying his exercise of power and control?

So I agree with this pp:
However the dickpandering apologists for colonising males can fuck off to the far side of fuck and when they get there they can fuck off some more

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

The person will have said I identify as a woman.

Male-presenting means that there were no visual cues that the person wished to be seen as a woman.

For example, this is a male-presenting biological male identifying as a woman.

Fuck sake, asking for make up tips and the love hearts. It's like something from My Guy magazine circa 1986

Women. Just one big stereotype.

@LostForIdeas

I also did not expect to feel so shaken up by the male person smiling throughout as though it was a fun and enjoyable event.

Regardless of the sex or gender, why did the person running that session not address that issue? It’s obvious it would made everyone else uncomfortable in the room, even if they had been a woman.

You know why they did not address it. It was either because ; a) They are so ideologically captured that they have to refuse to see this behaviour or to acknowledge that it is problematic if they do see it b) They are too terrified to address this behaviour due to the backlash they will face and possible loss of their job/ reputation C) Both of the above.

Women running services for women survivors of male sexual abuse are now unable to address a male presenting male attending a women's survivor session and sitting there grinning in enjoyment. Well done Stonewall et al. Well done to everyone who unthinkingly repeats TWAW and woman is whoever they say they are.

I explained to them exactly what happened in the group and this is how they responded.

As you can see what I said wasn't addressed or taken seriously at all.

Male-presenting means that there were no visual cues that the person wished to be seen as a woman.

For example, this is a male-presenting biological male identifying as a woman

Is that profile a joke? I mean, ffs.

@IamSarah

I explained to them exactly what happened in the group and this is how they responded.

As you can see what I said wasn't addressed or taken seriously at all.

No it wasn't. That response is a disgrace. It effectively says, 'no we don't offer a safe space for recovery, no we don't offer inclusive services for all women from all communities, no we don't seek to prevent predatory males from entering our services, and we have chosen to be unable to do those things as we have decided to prioritise the choices of males who identify as women over the needs of actual female-women.'

@TheKeatingFive

Male-presenting means that there were no visual cues that the person wished to be seen as a woman.

For example, this is a male-presenting biological male identifying as a woman

Is that profile a joke? I mean, ffs.

No. That profile is no joke at any level.

Do they even know about trauma informed therapy?

Mridul Wadhwa and supporters appears to think it has a very different meaning.

Sarah

This is a concerning reply. They recognise that there are women who are excluded from their service... and there seems to be a logical solution, as you proposed earlier in the thread.

I don't have the accompanying text saved, but I don't think it was a joke, Keating.

IIRC, it was a post from the moderator of a facebook group for same-sex attracted women to discuss advice and tips for women who enjoyed travel and often travelled alone.

@Feelingoktoday as I said to pp, I was referring not to this specific situation but to how society in general excludes non-binary and trans folks. Not this situation specifically.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I don't have the accompanying text saved, but I don't think it was a joke, Keating.

IIRC, it was a post from the moderator of a facebook group for same-sex attracted women to discuss advice and tips for women who enjoyed travel and often travelled alone.

It actually doesn't matter if it is a joke or not. The whole point of this ideology is that there is no way of ascertaining, or responding to, the people who are piss-takers (or there for their own sexual reasons) from those who genuinely have sex/ gender dysphoria. If you try you will be viciously harassed for being transphobic. It's a misogynists/ sex offenders dream.

no we don't offer a safe space for recovery, no we don't offer inclusive services for all women from all communities, no we don't seek to prevent predatory males from entering our services

They acknowledge all this but for some reason are unwilling / unable to provide the very simple solution of a single sex group. Even though the trans people they surveyed would prefer their own group. It's baffling.

how society in general excludes non-binary and trans folks

How does it? What are they being excluded from?

MizzFizz

Can you post instances where you think that people under the trans umbrella are excluded in society apart from the area's feminists are asking for sex to be prioritised over gender?

X post with Eresh!

@IamSarah

no we don't offer a safe space for recovery, no we don't offer inclusive services for all women from all communities, no we don't seek to prevent predatory males from entering our services

They acknowledge all this but for some reason are unwilling / unable to provide the very simple solution of a single sex group. Even though the trans people they surveyed would prefer their own group. It's baffling.

Because to do that they would have to admit two things.

1. That TW aren't women in all and every regard
2. That some men will say they are trans when they are not in order to access women's spaces when women are vulnerable.

Well, that do admit that the latter may happen, though they minimise the likelihood of it, but they believe that subjecting women survivors of sex abuse to this when they are in trauma recovery services is acceptable for the wider aim of treating TW as W in all regards and at all times.

Their position isn't baffling within their own belief system. Its inevitable. Once you believe TW are literally women in every way and anyone can claim this no matter how they present, and respecting that is more important than respecting any other group of women, it follows quite logically.

Its inherently misogynistic to female-women, yes, as it makes us secondary humans, but within its own belief system its completely consistent.

While Mizz is thinking of a reply thought I would share all the spaces I am now excluded from because I didn't want to share my rape crisis counselling with a male.

• Obviously that women's group, or any other female only rape crisis group in the county

• The local women's centre - everything on offer is for self identifying females

• All the local female mental health groups

• All my local women's bars. Now with angry 'no t3rfs' signs on the door

• The supportive whatsapp group I was in with others from the centre and any online support

Attached is part of a message from a 'friend' who clocked that it was me who had dared to ask the rape crisis centre for a single sex group.

Women are punished, severely punished, for asserting ourselves, speaking up and voicing our needs.

With the level of bullying it's very tempting not to bother.

Attached is part of a message from a 'friend' who clocked that it was me who had dared to ask the rape crisis centre for a single sex group. Women are punished, severely punished, for asserting ourselves, speaking up and voicing our needs

I do think it is a sign of the weakness of their arguments that they get so angry. They can't answer our points. They just can't. So they call names and get angry instead. I guess its quite similar to the mentality of a man who wife suspects him of cheating so he calls her crazy. He can't actually refute what she says with reason or logic, and that makes him uncomfortable, so he has to silence her and call her names instead.

This is a women's rape crisis service who feel very strongly about being accessible and indeed extremely sensitive to the needs of TW service users as women.

However they're not just less sensitive to other groups of women, they're flat out inaccessible to some groups of women and are ok with that .

And in other ways of terming this: they have prioritised and focused on diverse quality accessibility and rape service for male people at the expense of providing anything at all for female people. Although 99% of their clients will be female in a women's service.

Legally I think they're up a creek without a paddle, it's indefensible. They need to become what they are in defacto now: a trans support service who are accessible to some women: they have made it clear they are not actually able or willing to be a women's service.

The LA need to be providing accessible services for women that actually are able to focus on women. Without pushing anti-women exclusionary and discriminatory political policies.

as I said to pp, I was referring not to this specific situation but to how society in general excludes non-binary and trans folks. Not this situation specifically.

That's not true though is it. These groups of people are included in society. There is provision for them for their sex, and their trans status. They have human right protections. They have the same rights as anyone else in the UK. These groups do however exclude women from their own sex based services, by seeking to destroy them or make them mixed sex.

That's not fair or reasonable behaviour is it.

@Helleofabore

MizzFizz

Can you post instances where you think that people under the trans umbrella are excluded in society apart from the area's feminists are asking for sex to be prioritised over gender?

And keep in mind while answering this that all females are asking for is to be provided for alongside male and trans needs being met.

No one is saying that the trans services should be reduced or removed at all. It's great to meet those needs.

But female needs should be met too. If trans inclusion in fact means female exclusion and discrimination, why should women be signing up for this? It's not a great thing is it? And it comes down to an absolute intolerance of seeing female needs being met too .

Imagine if women were showing this intolerance towards TW? And saying no, they cannot have any service at all, their needs cannot be met on this site even if all my services are fully available to me and it would not affect me in any way to provide for those rape victims?

Women here would be up in arms about the unfairness of it and it would be front page headlines. Why is even basically acceptable to have this appalling behaviour directed towards females?