Page 22 | Would you want capital punishment back?

Mynameisnew · 2021-12-06T02:07:16+00:00

There are people who do such vile things in this country and are jailed for a decade or two. Perhaps released for good behaviour a bit earlier. Afaik CP was stopped amongst other reasons because there were a number of errors made and innocent people being convicted. But these days with DNA proof or cases where it is on cctv /phone messages or has been admitted (thinking of Emma Tustin) Would it not make a good deterrent? Even if one person is saved from being murdered... I appreciate that in the USA people still commit murder, but they also have guns there which means a higher incidence of spur of the moment violence. But a sustained campaign of abuse - would such an abuser as Tustin have been put off if CP was an option, even if very rarely used? It's easy for me to say that I would be deterred, but I'm not a psychopathic and sadistic person so the issue is, it's hard to say if people like that would be put off such a crime. Perhaps it doesn't even enter their heads that it's wrong.

Flipflopblowout · 09/12/2021 18:32

It definitely stops people from offending twice.

StoneofDestiny · 09/12/2021 18:57

It definitely stops people from offending twice

*It's 'after the fact', so it's useless for the victim.
*It might stop that one person reoffending, but so would life imprisonment.

We need to get at the hundreds of abusers as yet undetected. We need to find them to save other children from abuse. The people best placed to do that are the Public Services so woefully underfunded and understaffed. We need to be vigilant as neighbours are report our suspicions to the appropriate agencies and let them do their work.

5128gap · 09/12/2021 19:26

I think someone may have been reading a few too many Philippa Gregory novels, and is imagining the noble sweep of the French headsman's sword.

ruabon1977 · 09/12/2021 19:44

No, because innocent people would be convicted, or more likely guilty people found not guilty because some of the jury would not wish to condemn someone to death.

Nat6999 · 09/12/2021 19:53

Jon Venables & Robert Thompson were in a secure home near where I lived, they were out in the community within 3 years of being convicted. I know they were children but where was the justice for James Bulger's parents? I am not calling for the death penalty for children who commit murder but they were out within 10 years with new identities, I know one of them has been back in prison several times for child pyrography offences which shows he will most likely never be rehabilitated.

Ijsbear · 09/12/2021 21:16

Capital punishment just doesn't work. Countries with CP are not the ones with the lowest rate of offending and rehabilitation.

Stop child cruelty by ensuring there's ~adequate~ intervention early on, support and help for families who are vulnerable and open to help, remove children earlier from families where there is little realistic hope of change and ensure a good foster care system that doesn't traumatize the children further.

CP won't do anything to deter people who think they won't be caught (and most child cruelty isn't), or who are so sodding traumatized themselves that they cannot any more connect action and consequence. If someone is traumatized enough, that can happen. It certainly won't work if someone has lost control for a time and is beyond rational thought.

CP might work on reasonable people who can think about the consequences of what they are about to do. Those are the ones whom it won't be applied to, generally speaking.

GoodPrincessWenceslas · 09/12/2021 22:30

@Flipflopblowout

It definitely stops people from offending twice.

Actually no, because of the well-known tendency of juries to find people not guilty or to opt for manslaughter if they can't stomach the thought of the person in front of them getting executed. So the availability of the punishment is no guarantee whatsoever that it will stop people offending twice.

GoodPrincessWenceslas · 09/12/2021 22:34

I know one of them has been back in prison several times for child pyrography offences which shows he will most likely never be rehabilitated

Just on a point of accuracy, he has been returned to prison twice, and is currently still there.

WalkingOnTheCracks · 09/12/2021 23:21

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

Oi - who do you think you are to swan around the place with your pertinent facts and your measured tone? There are people trying to talk slack-jawed bollocks in here, y’know….

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 10/12/2021 07:36

Just on a point of accuracy, he has been returned to prison twice, and is currently still there.

Where he’ll be staying for the rest of his life with any luck. How many chances does it need before it’s accepted he’s beyond any form of rehabilitation?

Naomixx · 30/12/2021 20:48

@sashh well that’s ok then that a two year old was tortured to death because at least his killers life improved afterwards 😡

Naomixx · 30/12/2021 20:55

@Nat6999

Jon Venables & Robert Thompson were in a secure home near where I lived, they were out in the community within 3 years of being convicted. I know they were children but where was the justice for James Bulger's parents? I am not calling for the death penalty for children who commit murder but they were out within 10 years with new identities, I know one of them has been back in prison several times for child pyrography offences which shows he will most likely never be rehabilitated.

@nat6999 their sentence was a complete joke! They have never been punished for their crime.

Chasingaftermidnight · 30/12/2021 20:56

No. It represents really poor value for money for the taxpayer.

OhWhyNot · 30/12/2021 20:59

No

Not for anyone

Naomixx · 30/12/2021 21:07

I wouldn’t mind if it was brought back to be honest. Why are we so obsessed with keeping people alive who clearly don’t deserve to breathe? You won’t exactly miss them? If you take someone else’s life then you should have yours taken from you too. Either that or make life sentences actually mean life and not some pathetic sentence that they will most likely only serve half of. Make prison feel like actual prison rather than some cushy existence where you get to decorate your cell or whatever nonsense they’re allowed to do.

Whatafustercluck · 30/12/2021 21:27

@Nat6999

Jon Venables & Robert Thompson were in a secure home near where I lived, they were out in the community within 3 years of being convicted. I know they were children but where was the justice for James Bulger's parents? I am not calling for the death penalty for children who commit murder but they were out within 10 years with new identities, I know one of them has been back in prison several times for child pyrography offences which shows he will most likely never be rehabilitated.

The other one was by all accounts successfully rehabilitated, lives a decent and quiet life, is gainfully employed and has a long term partner.

If someone hurt one of my children, really hurt them, I'd want to throttle them with my bare hands - and I'd probably take a great deal of pleasure in doing so. But isn't the state supposed to be above that? A primal reaction you can understand, but I've never understood how murder by an individual can be punished by murder by the state. It is illogical.

Miscarriages of justice can and do happen. But even if guilt were 100 per cent proven, I think death would be a quick way out for the most serious criminals. You only need to look at the number who escape justice through suicide to see that. Take their freedoms away and make them live the rest of their pathetic lives looking over their shoulder.

HeadPain · 31/12/2021 03:50

@MorningStarling

I would be quite happy to be an executioner, but no way would I ever be a prison officer. Prison officers have a very difficult job and are forever dealing with violence. An executioner is just a public servant in the same way a doctor or social worker is - just a human being, trained to do a job which is necessary for society to function.

Obviously the pay needs to be appropriate, one of James Berry's complaints was that he was paid by the job and there weren't always enough customers. He advocated a fixed annual salary which seems sensible. Maybe a combination of the two, a decent salary (say 100K?) plus a couple of grand per person executed. Before Berry, the executioner used to be able to keep the condemned's clothing and personal effects which could be sold for additional income. I don't think this aspect is correct and think the personal property should be returned along with the corpse to the executed person's family.

I have a good friend who is a prison officer, who is a thoroughly lovely man. I’d hate to think of him being given such a task.

I think this is the important thing, prison officer and executioner are two completely different jobs. No way should a prison officer be expected to carry out an actual execution, that is a different skill set entirely. Just as in a hospital the porter who brings the patient to the operating theatre is a different person to the one who performs the surgery. The prison officers would be in charge while the person awaited execution, and obviously assist in forcing them to the place of execution if they resisted. Then their job done, the executioner could perform their art.

That's what anti-CP people misunderstand. An execution is as much an art as a science. It's a job that most people couldn't do very well, and that's fine. Society works because people have different skills.

Well this was disturbing.