Would you want capital punishment back?

[Mynameisnew]

There are people who do such vile things in this country and are jailed for a decade or two. Perhaps released for good behaviour a bit earlier.

Afaik CP was stopped amongst other reasons because there were a number of errors made and innocent people being convicted.

But these days with DNA proof or cases where it is on cctv /phone messages or has been admitted (thinking of Emma Tustin)

Would it not make a good deterrent? Even if one person is saved from being murdered...

I appreciate that in the USA people still commit murder, but they also have guns there which means a higher incidence of spur of the moment violence.

But a sustained campaign of abuse - would such an abuser as Tustin have been put off if CP was an option, even if very rarely used?

It's easy for me to say that I would be deterred, but I'm not a psychopathic and sadistic person so the issue is, it's hard to say if people like that would be put off such a crime. Perhaps it doesn't even enter their heads that it's wrong.

No but I do wish that prisons were less comfortable places than they currently are.

No

I think on the very rare occasion it is better to execute someone (when their capture could cause civil unrest)

No I don't want capital punishment

There will be cases where the innocent are executed
I don't believe in an eye for an eye whatever the circumstances
I would prefer extremely long sentences and shabby conditions. I am thinking if the shawshank redemption v the green mile

Prisons are not comfortable

I have no idea why people think this. Many prisoners are traumatised from their time in prison which leads to mh issues

@OhWhyNot

Prisons are not comfortable

I have no idea why people think this. Many prisoners are traumatised from their time in prison which leads to mh issues

They are more comfortable than prisons in many other countries

@MynameisWa

Can you imagine the law suits stretched out, the media storm and activism leading up to each case? Human rights lawyers would go into a feeding frenzy.

I don’t think it would deter crime. Many murders like Tustin are so out of touch they think they can get away with it completely. There’s not much rational thought involved. They are usually deluded into thinking they are justified, exonerated in some way or too clever to get caught.

In my mind there is simply no good reasons for the death penalty.

Perhaps it sends a clear message loudly but to say ‘it’s wrong to kill’ and then kill on command of the state is just ridiculous.

In no way should the death penalty be reintroduced.

I don’t think it would deter crime. Many murders like Tustin are so out of touch they think they can get away with it completely.

Maybe it won't deter crimes, but I can't see the point of the taxpayer feeding these degenerates for 20-30 years either.

So what

What countries are you comparing us to. South America, US, Russia all have mush high violent crime rates than we do here l.
Prison is not a deterrent

The most successful rehabilitation is in countries that invest heavily in rehabilitation

I would never want the death penalty brought back but if Hughes and Tustin were beaten to death in jail, I would have zero sympathy. I get why people want it back when you read stories like that but we are supposed to be better than them, not murderers ourselves.

No, never

No, I don't believe we should ever go back to that

I believe if you are hailed for 10 years you do 10 years. I believe you should all be treated the same in jail, so no open prisons, a cell no tv, possibly a radio, books etc but also you work during the day doing something productive, but not for money, but to recompense for what you have done

Prison is tough, but you have committed a crime against someone and all crimes affect those who it’s don’t to on some way. By making things tough hopefully people won’t want to do the crime because of the punishment

The most successful rehabilitation is in countries that invest heavily in rehabilitation
I agree, but majority aren't interested in this fact.

@ufucoffee

No but I do wish that prisons were less comfortable places than they currently are.

@ufucoffee

"The Ministry of Justice announced that they were taking over the running of HMP Birmingham, following witnessing ‘appalling’ levels of violence and squalor. Inspectors found corridors filthy with blood, vomit and cockroaches, amid damning levels of violence, drugs and alcohol abuse. One in seven prisoners admitted they had developed drug addictions whilst that they had been inside the prison."

blog.insidegovernment.co.uk/criminal-justice/blog/prison-reform

@OhWhyNot

Prisons are not comfortable

I have no idea why people think this. Many prisoners are traumatised from their time in prison which leads to mh issues

I don't have any sympathy I'm afraid. Why should they be comfortable? Prison should be a deterrent. Capital punishment, I'm not sure. I don't really want my money to pay to house murderers or child molesters for years. But as far as I know, people can be on death row for years, so that wouldn't change.

Basically the people on here calling for maltreatment in prison, death penalty etc are calling for an end to human rights.

Human rights mean that every single person is entitled to certain rights such as freedom from inhuman and degrading treatment. Everyone. If you start deciding certain people have done things that are terrible enough to justify breaching their human rights, you hand the government authority to torture or degrade anyone they like.

These rights were all put in place after WWII to prevent countries falling into tyranny and horror again. The people who put them in place weren't naive about how abusive and disgusting people can be. They put them in place because of that.

A lot of people on here seem to want to fixate on details of the Tustin and Hughes case in a really ghoulish, grisly way.

@Chloemol

I believe if you are hailed for 10 years you do 10 years. I believe you should all be treated the same in jail, so no open prisons, a cell no tv, possibly a radio, books etc but also you work during the day doing something productive, but not for money, but to recompense for what you have done

Prison is tough, but you have committed a crime against someone and all crimes affect those who it’s don’t to on some way. By making things tough hopefully people won’t want to do the crime because of the punishment

@chloemol doing something productive is good but costs money to run. Prisons often just keep prisoners in their cells because they can't afford to do anything else with them.

Can you really imagine being in a blank box day in, day out for years with no access to the outside world and possibly a dodgy or scary cellmate? TV is a cheap way to stop prisoners getting so bored and frustrated that they become angry, self harm, beat up others etc.

As for treating everyone the same - so murderers and drink drivers and people who got in a fight outside a pub and people who fiddled their taxes should all be treated the same? That would put them all on maximum security with extra staff, which would cost much more.

And if you're given ten years with no way of earning early release, there's no incentive to behave yourself. If you're given a 10 year sentence with a six year minimum term, you're going to try your best to deserve to get out after six. It's a low cost, effective way to get prisoners to behave themselves. Otherwise you have no leverage.

Have you watched that time prison series? I think it gives a fair view of what prison is like.

No, I would not like capital punishment back.

I rather money went into prevention, rehabilitation and care for the jury members. Not to mention more police officers.

No.

I also believe scumbags are made with societies help. The families that raise “monsters” need help. The monsters need help before they get to the position of hurting or murdering someone.

@EnidFrighten

Basically the people on here calling for maltreatment in prison, death penalty etc are calling for an end to human rights.

Human rights mean that every single person is entitled to certain rights such as freedom from inhuman and degrading treatment. Everyone. If you start deciding certain people have done things that are terrible enough to justify breaching their human rights, you hand the government authority to torture or degrade anyone they like.

These rights were all put in place after WWII to prevent countries falling into tyranny and horror again. The people who put them in place weren't naive about how abusive and disgusting people can be. They put them in place because of that.

A lot of people on here seem to want to fixate on details of the Tustin and Hughes case in a really ghoulish, grisly way.

Amazing post @EnidFrighten. Without giving everyone human rights, we become inhumane ourselves.

It makes me shiver when cases like Tustin and Hughes’ happen and suddenly people are crawling out of the woodwork to say that we should be experimenting on people in prison or leaving them without medical treatment or setting them to hard labour. It’s Nazi-esque and makes me wonder what seemingly normal people I’m chatting to at the school gates or passing on the streets, but who are actually fantasising about pulling off Rosemary West’s fingernails. It’s ghoulish and frankly chilling.

No. The psychopaths and terrorists, who might most seem to deserve it, wouldn't be deterred, and it just makes the citizens (us) killers by proxy. And there is always the risk of executing the innocent.

Countries, and states within the USA, with capital punishment don't seem to have any fewer murders than those without.

I think there are definitely people (like the couple you're referencing) for whom life should mean life, but I don't think the death penalty would have deterred them or saved Arthur.

@EnidFrighten

Basically the people on here calling for maltreatment in prison, death penalty etc are calling for an end to human rights.

Human rights mean that every single person is entitled to certain rights such as freedom from inhuman and degrading treatment. Everyone. If you start deciding certain people have done things that are terrible enough to justify breaching their human rights, you hand the government authority to torture or degrade anyone they like.

These rights were all put in place after WWII to prevent countries falling into tyranny and horror again. The people who put them in place weren't naive about how abusive and disgusting people can be. They put them in place because of that.

A lot of people on here seem to want to fixate on details of the Tustin and Hughes case in a really ghoulish, grisly way.

Absolutely this, and I couldn’t agree more with your last paragraph.

It reminds me of a thread where I mentioned about the Circles of Support and Accountability scheme, which provides a supportive network around child sex abusers to help prevent them acting on their impulses and therefore prevent children from being abused.

Even though the scheme has very positive results and has stopped many child sex abusers from harming children, some posters were completely opposed to the idea and were focused on committing violence to the abusers, often describing what they would do to them in great detail. I got the impression they thought it made them look as if they cared more about the children than people who supported the scheme.

@OhWhyNot

Prisons are not comfortable

I have no idea why people think this. Many prisoners are traumatised from their time in prison which leads to mh issues

People should read A Bit of a Stretch. The author writes about his time in HMO Wandsworth. He was only in for a complicated tax matter that meant he had committed tax evasion through (basically) his own stupidity, but ended up receiving a custodial sentence.

From The Guardian:

If you thought you knew how bad British prisons are, you haven’t read this book. Drugs, riots, suicides, squalor, overcrowding, understaffing, dangerous criminals let out early, minor offenders kept in too long or wrongly banged up in the first place; that’s only a fraction of the story. Chris Atkins’s journal of his time in HMP Wandsworth shows why conditions are so atrocious, with four Tory justice secretaries (Michael Gove, Liz Truss, David Lidington, David Gauke) coming and going during his stretch and none of them able to cope. It’s an inside story to make you weep at the incompetence, stupidity and viciousness of the current system…

The book is shocking. Modern prison conditions are shown to be Victorian- if not Medieval- with healthcare that hardly qualifies and squalid, scary conditions that serve to make criminals sick, both physically and mentally….And anyway much of the prison population is shown to be severely mentally ill before they even get there.

Prisons don’t sound very comfortable according to this book and we’ve got no business making prisons like this in an apparently civilised society. Give them clean, comfortable cells, healthcare and education. I don’t care what they’ve done, they’re all human rights that we all deserve.

Yes, it’s a right-wing media invention that uk prisons are an easy ride. Seems to be believed by quite a few in this thread.

@Warmduscher did you ever watch ‘Secret Life’ with Matthew McFayden? That was about life in a halfway house for “rehabilitated” paedophiles. Opened my eyes. That’s another system that’s failing horribly. Beautiful and well done drama, but not for the faint hearted.

Why do people think prisons aren’t comfortable? Have you been to one? Do you know anyone that’s been to prison?

If you have someone to support you, (which lets be honest no matter what people do there’s always some idiot family member or friend that sticks by them) They do just fine even being sent very little money.

Has nobody ever seen these videos of prisoners and their cells? Packed up with goodies, Xbox/ PlayStations/phones and smoking weed.
That isn’t a rare thing at all.

The people that struggle are actually the ones on drugs, because they can’t afford to keep buying drugs and get bullied.

Whole system is a joke, nobody is getting rehabilitated or punished, It’s just a joke to these people, a lot of people make more money in prison that out of prison to the point they don’t give a shit if they end up there.

If you think that’s not going on then you’re being very naive. People can say luckily our criminal system is for this or that, but is it working? No it’s definitely not.