Would you want capital punishment back?

[Mynameisnew]

There are people who do such vile things in this country and are jailed for a decade or two. Perhaps released for good behaviour a bit earlier.

Afaik CP was stopped amongst other reasons because there were a number of errors made and innocent people being convicted.

But these days with DNA proof or cases where it is on cctv /phone messages or has been admitted (thinking of Emma Tustin)

Would it not make a good deterrent? Even if one person is saved from being murdered...

I appreciate that in the USA people still commit murder, but they also have guns there which means a higher incidence of spur of the moment violence.

But a sustained campaign of abuse - would such an abuser as Tustin have been put off if CP was an option, even if very rarely used?

It's easy for me to say that I would be deterred, but I'm not a psychopathic and sadistic person so the issue is, it's hard to say if people like that would be put off such a crime. Perhaps it doesn't even enter their heads that it's wrong.

@OpeningY

Yanbu. I dont care if its not a deterrent, it is certainly retribution. Alternatively make sure the prison conditions are really shit, don't give them medical treatment etc.

Let them suffer like their victims did.

So you want it to be someone's job to keep humans locked up in horrible conditions with no medical treatment. Watching them get ulcers that become infected, teeth that rot and chest infections that leave them permanently impaired etc.

Is that good for the prison worker? Would prisoners come out of prison rehabilitated, or brutalised? What would it do to their families? Would you want that for your child if they got into trouble with drugs etc?

Just what is it that makes you better than those people, if you'd support a systematic regime to torture people?

[quote sqirrelfriends]@Warmduscher never said I wished it, I said part of me would like it to happen (I also qualified this by saying it would be wrong for it to actually happen), there's a difference. If I "wished" for it to happen then I would agree with it, which I said I didn't in my first post.

We're not going to agree, let's be big girls and leave it there. [/quote]
You’re right, you didn’t say you “wished “ for it to happen. You said you’d “like” it to happen. Which I think is no better.

And I’m not a girl, big or otherwise

@OpeningY

Yanbu. I dont care if its not a deterrent, it is certainly retribution. Alternatively make sure the prison conditions are really shit, don't give them medical treatment etc.

Let them suffer like their victims did.

This happens in the US.

My penfriend has been on Death Row in Nevada for 34 years. He has had medical treatment withheld, delayed and botched.

He now has a limp and several of his teeth have fallen out. Is that really what you’d want to happen to prisoners? (I have a horrible feeling you’ll say yes).

@OpeningY

Yanbu. I dont care if its not a deterrent, it is certainly retribution. Alternatively make sure the prison conditions are really shit, don't give them medical treatment etc.

Let them suffer like their victims did.

If all you want is retribution, we don't need a justice system at all. Let anyone who thinks they've been wronged deliver whatever retribution they think is appropriate upon whoever they deem responsible.

Sound like a good idea?

@Warmduscher I'm not going to explain the difference again, you clearly just want an argument.

Absolutely not.

Too many innocent people have been put to death and it isn't a proven deterrent anyway

[quote sqirrelfriends]@Warmduscher I'm not going to explain the difference again, you clearly just want an argument. [/quote]
Who’s arguing? I think you’d struggle to explain the difference between saying you would like something awful to happen to someone and wishing it would.

Can you imagine the law suits stretched out, the media storm and activism leading up to each case? Human rights lawyers would go into a feeding frenzy.

I don’t think it would deter crime. Many murders like Tustin are so out of touch they think they can get away with it completely. There’s not much rational thought involved. They are usually deluded into thinking they are justified, exonerated in some way or too clever to get caught.

In my mind there is simply no good reasons for the death penalty.

Perhaps it sends a clear message loudly but to say ‘it’s wrong to kill’ and then kill on command of the state is just ridiculous.

In no way should the death penalty be reintroduced.

No. I don't want to drag myself down to the level of the killer.

Nah. It's inevitable that there would be mistakes, whatever foolproof conditions you think you could put on it. The state simply shouldn't be trusted with that kind of power, and that would be true even if we weren't governed by incompetents and there weren't serious structural problems in the police. And it isn't a deterrent.

I think for me it would be about securing the ultimate justice for the person they committed the crime against. I have always been against the death penalty because it doesn’t seem like it should have any place in civilised society. However I am so appalled and horrified at what Tustin and Hughes did to that poor little boy that I am reconsidering my view and I think if it can be proven without a shred of doubt that someone is guilty of such a crime then frankly they don’t deserve to walk this earth.

Our justice system is such that many murderers do get to experience freedom again - even when they have been jailed for life you can never guarantee they won’t get out at some point in future on appeal. There was a case recently where a man who murdered two young girls was released on parole. I can’t remember his name but it was all over the news. He then started prowling young girls in the street. He should never have been released back into society.

It’s also the cost of keeping these people locked up, fed (ironic given their treatment of Arthur) and ultimately kept alive. They are a waste of good oxygen.

I will never ever forget the look of sadness and disparity on that little boys face on the video still (I’ve chosen not to watch the actual video) and have cried so many tears for him. I feel so utterly heartbroken 💔 😔

RIP Arthur 💙

• despair

I think paedophiles that rape and abuse children should be killed yes, because they can't be rehabilitated and will always be at risk of doing it again.

My penfriend has been on Death Row in Nevada for 34 years. He has had medical treatment withheld, delayed and botched. He now has a limp and several of his teeth have fallen out. Is that really what you’d want to happen to prisoners? (I have a horrible feeling you’ll say yes).

What is your "pen friend" convicted of? If it's death row it's safe to assume he did something heinous to another person? In which case he deserves everything he gets IMO.

Nope, it won't stop anything.

I think the worst crimes tend to happen either in a red mist, where the perpetrator likely regrets it for the rest of their lives and if they didn't have time to stop and think they were about to kill someone, I doubt they'd have time to stop and think about the death penalty; or else they happen because the person is psychopathic, in which case they don't care. So death penalty would not stop anyone committing these crimes - doesn't seemed to have worked in US.

Definitely not. It’s one of the things that really worried me about the Uk leaving the EU that it could potentially be brought back. I recently watched ‘The Penalty’ on Netflix. Really harrowing.

@Warmduscher yes dear

Absolutely not.
*We should not have state sanctioned murder. It brutalises society - just look at the hordes who turn up to celebrate executions in the USA
*Execution is no deterrent - if it was there would be no crime in places where they have capital punishment
*No 'evidence' is foolproof - even DNA can be 'planted' on purpose or by accident. There is corruption in the police as well as inadequacy in scientific testimony
*Many jurors would not pass a 'guilty' verdict if the death penalty was a possibility (or would be forced off a jury)
*Many will not inform on a criminalif they feel they will be executed
*Many guilty people have severe learning difficulties (low IQ's), products of abusive upbringings or have a mental illness
*Capital punishment can lead to more murders - 'better to hang for a sheep than a lamb' - so murderers will kill the witnesses, police etc as you can only be hung once!

• the fact that many prisoners sentence to 'life without parole' kill themselves in prison (think Shipman, West) shows life sentences are not soft options *If we get it wrong an innocent person will have been killed by us. That is unacceptable on every level *Just as it is in the prison system, there will be a disproportionate number of people from certain groups affected (in the USA 40% on death row are Black people despite Black people only being 13% of the population) *Life is sacred and as a society we need to demonstrate that by our actions.

@Fidgetty

My penfriend has been on Death Row in Nevada for 34 years. He has had medical treatment withheld, delayed and botched. He now has a limp and several of his teeth have fallen out. Is that really what you’d want to happen to prisoners? (I have a horrible feeling you’ll say yes).

What is your "pen friend" convicted of? If it's death row it's safe to assume he did something heinous to another person? In which case he deserves everything he gets IMO.

@fidgetty you are naive, I'm afraid. You have to be found guilty of a serious offence to end up on death row but it doesn't always translate into doing something 'heinous'.

Eg it could be someone who committed a robbery as a teen, got scared and shot someone. Or killed someone because they were ordered to by a gang leader who would have killed them otherwise. Or went out robbing with someone else, then the other person murdered the victim.

Those are all awful things that should be punished, but it's by no means all psycho evil sadistic murderers who end up on death row. There are plenty of people who had bad luck and made a wrong choice under pressure. Lots of them are also poor and black, funnily enough.

@Saskatcha are you taking the piss? The UK abolished the death penalty long before other European countries did.

What on earth makes you think that the EU has been keeping the UK in check on capital punishment?

I mean we’re not even remotely close to reintroducing it.

No.

And there is a reason that sentencing is done by experienced judges and not victims/families of victims of crime, let alone "the court of MN/the people/the tabloid press"

Perhaps confusing the EU with the ECHR? As one of the articles is the right to life.

Apart from the fact that it doesn't work as a deterrent and mistakes happen in convictions.

Murder / killing a human being on purpose is wrong.

Revenge or punishment doesn't make it right.

"Let's show everyone just how bad killing people is by... killing people"

@fidgetty you are naive, I'm afraid. You have to be found guilty of a serious offence to end up on death row but it doesn't always translate into doing something 'heinous'. Eg it could be someone who committed a robbery as a teen, got scared and shot someone. Or killed someone because they were ordered to by a gang leader who would have killed them otherwise.

No not naïve. If they had killed my family member in those circumstances I would consider that henious regardless of their race/income level. I would have no care for their circumstances, I would be content with seeing vengeance rightly served.

I agree with you @Fidgetty, if a family member was killed in any of those circumstances I wouldn't care why they had done it, only that they had and I would want revenge.