Hairdresser's testimony at Tustin trial

[FallingStar21]

I know there have been several threads discussing various details around the case.. But having read the complete timeline and hairdresser's testimony, i just absolutely cannot believe that neither she or her partner called the police!
For example, she had been at Tustin's house doing her hair for 4 hours and Arthir made to sit at a table and not move for the entire time. She says she just thought he'd been naughty or something. No alarm bells ringing, really?
Different time she witnessed Arthur made to stand by the door, but not move or lean on the door etc.. Arthur given a sandwich to eat by the door while Tustin eating in the garden with the other kids... No alarm bells.
Witnessing Arthur being shouted at horrible words.
Finally, hairdresser at Tustin's with her (hairdresser's) partner seeing Arthur so frail and by their own accounts "petrified". They know Arthur had been deprived of water, because hairdresser's partner gives him a glass of water in secret... a glass, which Arthur cant even hold up to his mouth (all in their testimony) ...No Alarm bells, no nothing?!
If they were previously unsure whether they needed to do something, that last account couldn't have been more crystal clear.
I know legally it's viewed differently, but IMO these people are almost complicit in this... They too, had the responsibility to protect him once they'd seen what they saw, which was really black and white.
Just cant believe it.

How many times have posters here asked if they should report and been subjected to abuse and a reminder that they could not possibly know what was going on and saw 'a snapshot' of a family without context
Posters have been vilified and abused for suggesting they make a report

I don't accept this at all. There is a huge difference between those posts expressing concern because they have once seen a young child been given a fizzy drink, or been sworn at by a parent. Things like that, in isolation, can't reasonably indicate that more might be going on.

But these people didn't see isolated, one offs; they saw a pattern over a period of time. They knew he was being too harshly punished.

Covid is not a valid excuse either. Covid breaches would pale into insignificance when offences were suspected. Any reasonable person would have risked a fine to save a child. Come on.

Bystander effect isn’t it? They just assumed that someone else would do something and also probably down played what they were seeing.

Totally not defending them, just to be clear and think you’re in the right. They definitely should have done something. However, even when social services had pictures he still passed away. That helpless little man was doomed RIP ❤️

Dear God.

'Sexual humanising way' is a completely meaningless phrase, just so we're all clear.

I didn't suggest it stops 'these things from happening': on the contrary, I made it very, very clear that it never will. Depressing but true. But you're clearly of that number who think the great many people who demonstrate this kind of sadistic and depraved behaviour, wouldn't do so if, what? People were nicer about them? Seriously?

[quote TowandaForever]@LetHimHaveIt

De humanising!!!![/quote]
Thanks for that 🙄 'Sexual dehumanising way' doesn't make any more sense, though, so . . .

@MrsTophamHat

*How many times have posters here asked if they should report and been subjected to abuse and a reminder that they could not possibly know what was going on and saw 'a snapshot' of a family without context Posters have been vilified and abused for suggesting they make a report*

I don't accept this at all. There is a huge difference between those posts expressing concern because they have once seen a young child been given a fizzy drink, or been sworn at by a parent. Things like that, in isolation, can't reasonably indicate that more might be going on.

But these people didn't see isolated, one offs; they saw a pattern over a period of time. They knew he was being too harshly punished.

Covid is not a valid excuse either. Covid breaches would pale into insignificance when offences were suspected. Any reasonable person would have risked a fine to save a child. Come on.

Whether anyone considers covid breaches to be a valid excuse really isn't the point. The fact is that this all took place at a time when there were multiple widely publicised incidents of ridiculously heavy handed policing wrt covid regulations, in some cases when nobody had even acted illegally. Of course this impacted on behaviour. And if people are scared to engage with authorities, that's a barrier to disclosure. That matters, because what we need is people who feel confident enough to report rather than scared.

It's not a question of what we think people are ethically justified in doing, rather what they will do. If we mix the two up, we won't do anything to help abused children.

One of the things teachers are taught during every safeguarding briefing (and there is normally one each term during INSET) is that the first reaction you have is to doubt yourself. You assume you're wrong, and make excuses for the situation.

I think it's clear that this is what happened with this case- but also Daniel Pelka, Victoria Climbie, and numerous others.

Report everything.

I believe they only got involved because they got caught on cctv. I hope social services get involved if they have kids - their behaviour was awful.

I'm sorry for what you endured @Maddiemoosmum0203

'I don’t think they should be punished they will have to live with there conscious for the rest of there lives and they will be well known in the area for this.'

People like this won't have a conscience. As a pp said they only commented because they'd been seen on cctv. People like this do need punishing, maximum fines whatever as an example that bystanders will be held to account too.

@Maddiemoosmum0203

I don’t think they should be punished they will have to live with there conscious for the rest of there lives and they will be well known in the area for this. I wish someone would of reported my family I was sexually abused and raped by my stepfather for years and my mum was beaten black and blue and honestly I thought a few times he had killed her and he beat my younger brother up badly too not one person helped us and we should of been on SS radar as my bio father sexually abused me and my sister these evil people are master manipulators poor Arthur

So sorry for everything you went through 💐❤️

The hairdresser isnt the only one that did nothing.

Social did nothing. Police did nothing. Those who could do something, didn’t .

I don’t think they have a conscience either. I was a member of a Facebook group for a while where people were discussing the trial and there were links to her hairdressing and beauty page where on the evening of the 15th June (the day before Arthur died, so he’d been in her house screaming and standing still for 5-6 hours that day and collapsing outside) she was smiling and chatting away announcing the winner of a beauty giveaway she’d been running. Clearly not a single fuck given.

In the trial they both (hairdresser and boyfriend) made it clear they didn’t intervene or consider reporting because they just assumed “that was their way” (Tustin and Hughes) and to pass judgement on someone else’s “discipline” wasn’t something they felt comfortable with.

We’re not talking about telling a child off for a couple of minutes here, are we?

Absolutely unforgivable.

I think people who keep saying oh they probably thought it was just a snapshot etc need to read the trial updates or this thread carefully before commenting as it really was clear as day he was being terribly and brutally abused.

Did the hairdresser not report it then? Just wondering how they found them as a witness.

@Iggly

Did the hairdresser not report it then? Just wondering how they found them as a witness.

They had cctv of Tustin arriving at her house and leaving her own house via taxi. Both families had a lot of cctv set up!

'In the trial they both (hairdresser and boyfriend) made it clear they didn’t intervene or consider reporting because they just assumed “that was their way” (Tustin and Hughes) and to pass judgement on someone else’s “discipline” wasn’t something they felt comfortable with.'

'We’re not talking about telling a child off for a couple of minutes here, are we?'

'Absolutely unforgivable.'

Omg I mean as if anyone tells a 6yr old dc to stand in a doorway for 5hrs as 'discipline'. They're either incredibly thick or nasty fuckers too. That poor dc.

I used to work in a local authority that failed its ofsted inspection for children services.

Social workers were letting cases slip, children weren’t being checked etc.

What it came down to was money.

Social work budgets were cut by people who didn’t understand social work. A bit similar to the cries of those who think the nhs has too much money etc etc. Senior management and politicians claiming it can be “more efficient”, without any evidence to support that. So they took a lot of money away.

What they ended up with was social workers with hundreds of children to monitor. One social with over a hundred children to check on. How can that even be done? Children at risk, no time to properly visit and get to know the family and turn on that bullshit detector.

And you end up with cases like Arthur.

The experts tell us time and time again, investment is needed. Better training = money. More social workers = money.

More money for schools so they have pastoral care in place to support families and help these kids.

More money for the police so they have time to pursue these cases.

It all needs money, but people balk at that and we keep getting Arthur or Victoria dying.

There will more of this, because people merrily accept funding cuts without thinking through the very real consequences.

@Fritilleries

People are too frightened to "interfere." A child is a human in their own right, not a possession or extension of yourself. It is EVERYBODY'S responsibility to support/call out something they see that doesn't sit right. Child protection is EVERYBODY'S issue.

This is so true. We all in society have a collective responsibility to report anything that worries us, disturbs us, upsets us. Generally when our intuition tells us that something is off, it usually is.

There’s no excuse whatsoever for anyone to fail to report any kind of abuse or worrying behaviour, especially given that they could have done it anonymously. It’s up to us to be a voice when a child doesn’t have one.

Maddiemoosmum0203
I hope justice was served on the evil bastards who abused you and hope you are in a better and safe place now.

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility. I have reported on several occasions, I know the NHS has become a lot more aware recently on how to spot victims and how to refer, but it's not just schools and health care providers, it's everyone.

......and everyone failed Arthur. 😔

@Iggly

I used to work in a local authority that failed its ofsted inspection for children services.

Social workers were letting cases slip, children weren’t being checked etc.

What it came down to was money.

Social work budgets were cut by people who didn’t understand social work. A bit similar to the cries of those who think the nhs has too much money etc etc. Senior management and politicians claiming it can be “more efficient”, without any evidence to support that. So they took a lot of money away.

What they ended up with was social workers with hundreds of children to monitor. One social with over a hundred children to check on. How can that even be done? Children at risk, no time to properly visit and get to know the family and turn on that bullshit detector.

And you end up with cases like Arthur.

The experts tell us time and time again, investment is needed. Better training = money. More social workers = money.

More money for schools so they have pastoral care in place to support families and help these kids.

More money for the police so they have time to pursue these cases.

It all needs money, but people balk at that and we keep getting Arthur or Victoria dying.

There will more of this, because people merrily accept funding cuts without thinking through the very real consequences.

Absolutely. And it’s easier for politicians and the media to stalk individual social workers and name and shame them saying it’s their fault. Maybe there will have been some errors but rather than stopping any investigation there they need to look further snd admit that mistakes are more likely to be made when people are over worked and cutting corners To try and keep on top of things.

This is so true. We all in society have a collective responsibility to report anything that worries us, disturbs us, upsets us. Generally when our intuition tells us that something is off, it usually is
All very well reporting when there isn’t a service to actually follow up because of severe funding cuts.

Social services are the Cinderella service. Like a lot of services delivered by local authorities. People think it’s funded by council tax. Council tax hasn’t been reduced.

However a lot was actually funded by central government. George Osborne took out so much money since 2010, followed by Theresa May’s government. They are on their knees now.

Nurses, teachers etc have training on safeguarding and know that it's their duty to report any concerns . I think that we should get the message out to the general public that we all need to recognise safeguarding for children and old and disabled people , and reporting any concerns should be the duty of everyone.

@winnieanddaisy

Nurses, teachers etc have training on safeguarding and know that it's their duty to report any concerns . I think that we should get the message out to the general public that we all need to recognise safeguarding for children and old and disabled people , and reporting any concerns should be the duty of everyone.

And how does an under funded service handle the reports if it doesn’t have the capacity to take action?

It’s a bit like the criminal justice system. The government is merrily making new laws but with police cuts and court cuts, people can’t be arrested and cases take years to get to court if the defendant pleads not guilty 🤷🏻‍♀️

of course they would be too scared to report. People say do it anonymously, but they have the number you called from and it would be easy for them to find out who you where

How scared was the child?

Besides that, it's easy to call from a phone box or block your number before ringing. No excuse for not reporting anonymously at all.

Iggly,

I still can't understand how much money or training it would take for sw to understand that you don't interview a possibly abused child in front of the perps???

I have not had any (much) training and I know this? It's instinctive to me?
How can anyone be truthful when someone's else is present who may report what they say?
They clearly did not raise or see enough of his s his shoulders to see that bruise.

How much funding do we need for this?