Hairdresser's testimony at Tustin trial

[FallingStar21]

I know there have been several threads discussing various details around the case.. But having read the complete timeline and hairdresser's testimony, i just absolutely cannot believe that neither she or her partner called the police!
For example, she had been at Tustin's house doing her hair for 4 hours and Arthir made to sit at a table and not move for the entire time. She says she just thought he'd been naughty or something. No alarm bells ringing, really?
Different time she witnessed Arthur made to stand by the door, but not move or lean on the door etc.. Arthur given a sandwich to eat by the door while Tustin eating in the garden with the other kids... No alarm bells.
Witnessing Arthur being shouted at horrible words.
Finally, hairdresser at Tustin's with her (hairdresser's) partner seeing Arthur so frail and by their own accounts "petrified". They know Arthur had been deprived of water, because hairdresser's partner gives him a glass of water in secret... a glass, which Arthur cant even hold up to his mouth (all in their testimony) ...No Alarm bells, no nothing?!
If they were previously unsure whether they needed to do something, that last account couldn't have been more crystal clear.
I know legally it's viewed differently, but IMO these people are almost complicit in this... They too, had the responsibility to protect him once they'd seen what they saw, which was really black and white.
Just cant believe it.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

Iggly,

I still can't understand how much money or training it would take for sw to understand that you don't interview a possibly abused child in front of the perps???

I have not had any (much) training and I know this? It's instinctive to me?
How can anyone be truthful when someone's else is present who may report what they say?
They clearly did not raise or see enough of his s his shoulders to see that bruise.

How much funding do we need for this?

How much money?? More than they’re getting now. When social workers are so stretched that they’ll take an easier road because they have worse cases to deal with - then you know there’s an issue. Social workers don’t stay in the job for long, there’s a huge recruitment issue and a lot of agency workers.

I didn’t believe it until I worked in a local authority. Then and only then did I actually STFU about something I knew little of (but had plenty of opinion about), and listen.

It is brutal.

The person who chair the Victoria Climbe trial - they’ve said that more funded is needed and austerity would have played a part in cases like this.

So, I really recommend that people keep their opinions to one side and listen to the experts. Funding cuts kill.

*chaired

Yep, this is what austerity does.

And of course baby Peter died in the notorious hargengay council which had obviously been under funded by which government? Labour must have thrown money at it right? Left a functioning massively funded system when they left office?
I'm a swing voter and it's driving me mad how some posters are turning it into a political issue.

@LetHimHaveIt

I think people are grossly underestimating the great swathes of fundamentally inadequate people there are in this country. So bloody depressing. Each generation more stupid and hopeless than the one before. More usually, it's a child murdered by a stepfather with its own mother taking a secondary role, and then the birth father emerges at some point to say how horrific it all is, and you think - 'Well, where were you, pal?' This time, it's the birth mother and we know where she is - fucking prison, serving time for manslaughter. Not exactly a model of rectitude, then. And the wider family equally fucking shit. It's like that fucking horrific case of Suzanne Capper, which you could Google if you have the stomach. There again there was a ringleader, surrounded by a load of fucking inadequate lackeys who could have intervened but didn't because they were variously scared, thick as fuck, or in her thrall. These people don't want to engage with the police or social devices. They won't lift a finger to inconvenience, let alone actually imperil themselves. It'll never end. Never.

Yes.

@StoneofDestiny

of course they would be too scared to report. People say do it anonymously, but they have the number you called from and it would be easy for them to find out who you where

How scared was the child?

Besides that, it's easy to call from a phone box or block your number before ringing. No excuse for not reporting anonymously at all.

It's an absolute nonsense to suggest these things can't be reported anonymously: of course they can. In any one of the ways suggested above.

That said, I do think it would be helpful if the government included a public information video in a wider campaign about child abuse, making it abundantly clear that people reluctant to report a crime of this type where there has been some sort of associated illegal activity, can do so largely with impunity. That's a fairly well-established principle of grassing, I believe.

Yes, you would hope that someone who witnessed how Arthur was being treated would have reported it. Especially when they could see his physical state as well.

However, blaming the hairdresser and her husband, social services and the police detracts from the actual culprits. I can well believe the hairdresser, while having no qualms about operating illegally in order to make money, would be worried about being found out. I can also well believe there was an unwritten "code of silence" between the hairdresser and Tustin. I think some people don't operate in the way many of us do and it's difficult to comprehend when it's completely alien to you.

The pair of them are an absolute fucking disgrace. If they’re not locked up, I hope to god they are completely shunned within their community.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

And of course baby Peter died in the notorious hargengay council which had obviously been under funded by which government? Labour must have thrown money at it right? Left a functioning massively funded system when they left office? I'm a swing voter and it's driving me mad how some posters are turning it into a political issue.

You’d have to be completely foolish to think that I think that only austerity has caused this.

Funding social services won’t stop child abuse in its tracks but it will put social workers in a stronger position to intervene.

Austerity means that this becomes more prevalent.

Austerity is a political choice.

'I still can't understand how much money or training it would take for sw to understand that you don't interview a possibly abused child in front of the perps???'

Exactly! And better use of current funding and better training perhaps. You can't blame 'funding' for a gormless sw seeing extensive bruising on the shoulders of an abused dc and say its down to 'normal rough and tumble'.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

And of course baby Peter died in the notorious hargengay council which had obviously been under funded by which government? Labour must have thrown money at it right? Left a functioning massively funded system when they left office? I'm a swing voter and it's driving me mad how some posters are turning it into a political issue.

I knew someone would come along and try to argue that because children are murdered under Labour administrations too, that means any mention of cuts and the impact must be politics. But as you correctly point out, Labour didn't provide sufficient funding either. That doesn't disprove the point about austerity. It does the exact opposite. Denying the impact of underfunding is itself political.

If it helps, I'm also clear that lockdown played a part here too and Labour if anything have been more pro restrictions than the Tories.

Oh yes again poor Victoria, again which government in charge?

@winnieanddaisy

Nurses, teachers etc have training on safeguarding and know that it's their duty to report any concerns . I think that we should get the message out to the general public that we all need to recognise safeguarding for children and old and disabled people , and reporting any concerns should be the duty of everyone.

We need to have a well funded, well staffed service that they can report to.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

Oh yes again poor Victoria, again which government in charge?

You've got some cheek complaining about people politicising the issue.

I knew someone would come along and try to argue that because children are murdered under Labour administrations too, that means any mention of cuts and the impact must be politics. But as you correctly point out, Labour didn't provide sufficient funding either. That doesn't disprove the point about austerity. It does the exact opposite. Denying the impact of underfunding is itself political

Exactly.

Austerity has made the situation so much worse. As I’ve already said, social services is a Cinderella service. People don’t want to fund it, they don’t understand it, they probably think it has enough money and are woefully misinformed.

I had naive views on social services until I worked in a local authority. And I’m glad I did, because I’m much more informed now!

Social services are needed because there are times that children need that intervention. Sometimes there will be failings - either because of individual social workers or because of systemic issues where individual social workers don’t have the capacity to do their job. It won’t be one Arthur they’d looking after. They’ll have ten Arthurs to see in a day and make judgements on.

@Iggly

I used to work in a local authority that failed its ofsted inspection for children services.

Social workers were letting cases slip, children weren’t being checked etc.

What it came down to was money.

Social work budgets were cut by people who didn’t understand social work. A bit similar to the cries of those who think the nhs has too much money etc etc. Senior management and politicians claiming it can be “more efficient”, without any evidence to support that. So they took a lot of money away.

What they ended up with was social workers with hundreds of children to monitor. One social with over a hundred children to check on. How can that even be done? Children at risk, no time to properly visit and get to know the family and turn on that bullshit detector.

And you end up with cases like Arthur.

The experts tell us time and time again, investment is needed. Better training = money. More social workers = money.

More money for schools so they have pastoral care in place to support families and help these kids.

More money for the police so they have time to pursue these cases.

It all needs money, but people balk at that and we keep getting Arthur or Victoria dying.

There will more of this, because people merrily accept funding cuts without thinking through the very real consequences.

It clearly comes down to money, but ''Problem families'' keep on having children they clearly either don't want or can't manage! WHY? They must know they can't cope, yet along comes a new man, and yet another pregnancy and Social services involved yet again.

Looking after children properly is hard work.

Look at how Tustin got pregnant a couple of times with Hughes, with immodest haste.
One of her ex partners says she gets pregnant almost immediately to have control over the man she barely knows.
Grotesque.

I'm not trying to argue anything and I don't deny we need to change the whole tilt of how we treat children in the UK
We simply don't put them first and too much time is spent wasted pussy footing around parents or supposed care givers. However, in this case as with that of baby Peter and Victoria, it was noted that the services (at the end of a long labour tenure) were severely under staffed and under funded BUT, it was clear in Lammings report... The services didn't enact basic principles of practise.
Easy chances to intervene were lost.

As an aside I wonder if the chain management system is partly to blame.

It clearly comes down to money, but ''Problem families'' keep on having children they clearly either don't want or can't manage!
Why resort to that old snobbery stereotypical classic? “Mum has too many kids” angle. Ffs.

And what is your solution?

@Alltheblue

How many times have posters here asked if they should report and been subjected to abuse and a reminder that they could not possibly know what was going on and saw 'a snapshot' of a family without context.

Posters have been vilified and abused for suggesting they make a report.

^ and so the abuse continues.

However, in this case as with that of baby Peter and Victoria, it was noted that the services (at the end of a long labour tenure) were severely under staffed and under funded BUT, it was clear in Lammings report... The services didn't enact basic principles of practise

And I bet my bottom dollar they were linked. Working in an environment where every 6 months you have to deal with trying to manage funding cuts, I can well imagine it would not function very well.

@Iggly

Did the hairdresser not report it then? Just wondering how they found them as a witness.

Tustin also told the police they were at a friends earlier that day and that Arthur had pushed her down the stairs. The police probably wanted to speak to that friend to find out what happened while they were there.

I ❤️ Iggly.

I'm glad you posted, Iggly.

Although I doubt the "hairdresser" reporting about Arthur would have made a jot of difference she, and her partner, definitely should have reported it.

I hope they both can't sleep at night and I also hope their children are being looked at. I can't honestly believe that she was the one who said to install cctv in their house. Honestly who the hell has cctv in their house?

One poster said along the lines of "none of us know what we would have done". Well I bloody know what I would have done and that is report the scum.

I reported child abuse when I was actually living in the house of the abusers knowing I would lose my place to live. The abuse was nowhere near the scale of this case but no way was I going to turn a blind eye.

'Working in an environment where every 6 months you have to deal with trying to manage funding cuts, I can well imagine it would not function very well.'

Boo fucking hoo. Most public services are underfunded but don't use that as excuse for negligence.

Arthur was seen by social workers! The bruising on his shoulders was put down to 'normal rough and tumble'. How much funding would it take for a sw to realise that is not where kids tends to bruise through normal play?! Jesus.