Hairdresser's testimony at Tustin trial

[FallingStar21]

I know there have been several threads discussing various details around the case.. But having read the complete timeline and hairdresser's testimony, i just absolutely cannot believe that neither she or her partner called the police!
For example, she had been at Tustin's house doing her hair for 4 hours and Arthir made to sit at a table and not move for the entire time. She says she just thought he'd been naughty or something. No alarm bells ringing, really?
Different time she witnessed Arthur made to stand by the door, but not move or lean on the door etc.. Arthur given a sandwich to eat by the door while Tustin eating in the garden with the other kids... No alarm bells.
Witnessing Arthur being shouted at horrible words.
Finally, hairdresser at Tustin's with her (hairdresser's) partner seeing Arthur so frail and by their own accounts "petrified". They know Arthur had been deprived of water, because hairdresser's partner gives him a glass of water in secret... a glass, which Arthur cant even hold up to his mouth (all in their testimony) ...No Alarm bells, no nothing?!
If they were previously unsure whether they needed to do something, that last account couldn't have been more crystal clear.
I know legally it's viewed differently, but IMO these people are almost complicit in this... They too, had the responsibility to protect him once they'd seen what they saw, which was really black and white.
Just cant believe it.

Keyring I know what you mean I don't understand how people can behave this way. How can somebody go to thier grave having commited such evil in thier life.

I agree Tevion28. I hope neither has a moment's peace or happiness in the rest of their miserable lives. RIP dear little Arthur.

@Alltheblue

His biological mother must be genuinely heartbroken but I felt her tribute owed it to Arthur to acknowledge that she had been one of the adults in his life who had let him down. Without that it seemed like yet another gloss on child abuse and child neglect. And strangely detached from the reality, which is that she wasn't there, being his mother, as a result of her own actions, leaving Emma or any other woman who liked free to fill the role. And she wasn't going to be there for the rest of his childhood.

Quite.

Alltheblue most women who are convicted of murder or manslaughter were domestic violence victims attacking their abuser, often in self defence.

Anyone has the capacity to kill if they feel sufficiently threatened. Possibly she even felt that she was protecting her child. Unfortunately for him not.

Some kids are doomed from the minute the Sperm meets the egg
His suffering is terrible and awful to contemplate

But this happens
And happens
And happens

keyring I remember being like you when the daniel pelka case occurred
I was really messed up
I’ve sadly accepted that these awful things will happen , as this is society we are in
It’s awful isn’t it 😞

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Some kids are doomed from the minute the Sperm meets the egg His suffering is terrible and awful to contemplate

But this happens
And happens
And happens

keyring I remember being like you when the daniel pelka case occurred
I was really messed up
I’ve sadly accepted that these awful things will happen , as this is society we are in
It’s awful isn’t it 😞

Yes couldn't agree more. Some kids will have charmed lives, others will be born into lives of unrelenting misery and violence. It can never be wiped out because people who are intrinsically very nasty and unkind (to put it mildly in this tragic case) will always be born. And you cannot stop people from procreating and/or hooking up with partners who are not the biological parents of the child.

I suppose these ghastly incidences have always occurred -it's just that we hear about them because of the media.

They have always happened
And my guess is statistically the incidences are less nowadays thanks to economic development and education welfare state yada yada

Please don’t read it like I don’t care
It’s horrific
But this isn’t new or shocking
It’s humanity
We’re the cruellest breed

@Thisisworsethananticpated

They have always happened And my guess is statistically the incidences are less nowadays thanks to economic development and education welfare state yada yada

Please don’t read it like I don’t care
It’s horrific
But this isn’t new or shocking
It’s humanity
We’re the cruellest breed

agree Thisisworsethananticipated. Yes humans are the cruellest breed. Animals wouldn't act like this.

The poor kid was let down by every single adult he came into contact with, the hairdresser & her partner included. Yes I appreciate she was probably scared that she could have been fined for operating in lockdown but she could have reported it anonymously. She could have spoken to one of the other family members.

What stands out for me is the grandparents (paternal & maternal) and other family members who raised concerns. I know without a shadow of a doubt that DM, and DF for that matter would do everything in their power to protect DD if anything happened to me. If they thought she was being mistreated they would remove her and fight later threat of covid laws or not.

They were covering their own arses, plain and simple. Human beings are selfish creatures! They'd rather dodge a potential £10,000 fine than save a child.

We need a change in the law whereby if you are committing a minor offence and witness a major offence that you can come forward without being prosecuted. As far as I'm aware they have testified in court that she was illegally working during lockdown yet hasn't been charged with that offence.

I can hand on heart say if any child entered my company in the state that poor child was in I'd have called the police and I'm not ashamed to say I'd have used the emergency number. Doesn't matter whose child it was, a family member, close friend or only an acquaintance. If you are intimidated by someone then imagine how a child would be made to feel by them. The child wouldn't have left my home until police arrived.

There is no legal process for prosecuting these people for a complete lack of morals. They now have to live with knowing they allowed that child to go home to his death. They have to live with that forever.

Anyone reading this who knows of any child living in an abusive environment needs to know that if they do nothing they may have to live with the same guilt. They may eventually end up with blood on their hands.

There are a limited number of social workers but every abused and neglected child has neighbours, parents of class mates, posties, delivery drivers, people who see them daily. We, as a collective. need to start being a bit nosey and keeping an eye on the children we come into contact with. I work with children and know that if something was even slightly suspect to me, I'd be reporting it repeatedly until something was done.

Not all neglect is because of bad parenting, parents need to be encouraged to seek help if they cannot provide for their children due to ill health, financial hardship or any other of the myriad of reasons that good parents struggle to provide for their children. Schools are doing the absolute best they can to help those parents.

For those not seeking help we need to ask is it because of shame or pride or is it something more sinister.

The pair of them haven’t a moral between them. Worse than alley cats. I genuinely hope that they are shunned and shamed in their community. Shame on them.

@Lougle

Hairdressers could be fined £10,000 for operating during lockdown. I expect that had something to do with it.

Bet you're bloody right there. She could have done it anonymously but that could have been a reason why. Not a worthy reason but it probably was that!

It's not a written law, but people get let off minor crimes by reporting major crimes all the time.

and in all conscience how could you have slept soundly in your bed that night, having witnessed what you'd seen during the day?

@Gem176

Yes.

What interests me in your post is when you said" not ashamed to say it, I would have used the emergency number ".

You, I we should use the emergency number, there is no shame in it at all. What more could 999 be used for than to save a poor child's life!

We are scared to make a fuss sometimes generally... I would have also called 999.
The instant police knew.." I've had a child here he's been made to stand at the door all day, legs shaking, can barely sip water yadda...

Police instantly around.

Key ring, the only way would be if your own parenting bar was that's low and that of others around you?

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

Key ring, the only way would be if your own parenting bar was that's low and that of others around you?

yes you're right.

I agree - I think they should be prosecuted for not reporting it but I’ve no ideal if that’s legally possible.

They knew he was being abused. There is no way they didn’t if they were trying to “sneak” him water ffs.

It's an unpleasant truth that a law formally preventing people in this situation from being charged with lesser crimes would do more to incentivise coming forward than punishment of bystanders.

Keyring it is quite common in the animal kingdom for adults to eat their offspring, it’s just sad that humans with our superior intellect can behave like this.

If I was a mobile hairdresser I would be reading this with horror. The same goes if I was pet sitter, electrician, cleaner or anyone else who briefly visits a household for work purposes. I doubt you attend a clients home to assess their childcare practices and unless something ridiculously blatant was going on, I doubt you would realise it was significant?

God help us if we start fining or prosecuting people for not realising when something bad is happening

@Coffeepot72

If I was a mobile hairdresser I would be reading this with horror. The same goes if I was pet sitter, electrician, cleaner or anyone else who briefly visits a household for work purposes. I doubt you attend a clients home to assess their childcare practices and unless something ridiculously blatant was going on, I doubt you would realise it was significant?

God help us if we start fining or prosecuting people for not realising when something bad is happening

This is a totally irrelevant post. The hairdresser and her boyfriend were totally aware that something bad was happening.

@bizboz

I suspect they didn't report it because it til place at the time when you weren't supposed to be mixing indoors and they didn't want to get in trouble. They could of course have reported anonymously but I got the impression from their court interviews that they weren't that familiar with the system.

This.

@Lougle

Hairdressers could be fined £10,000 for operating during lockdown. I expect that had something to do with it.

I wonder they could be charged retrospectively, I'm pretty sure the law allowed for that, at least there would be some comeuppance although not much

[quote ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou]@Gem176

Yes.

What interests me in your post is when you said" not ashamed to say it, I would have used the emergency number ".

You, I we should use the emergency number, there is no shame in it at all. What more could 999 be used for than to save a poor child's life!

We are scared to make a fuss sometimes generally... I would have also called 999.
The instant police knew.." I've had a child here he's been made to stand at the door all day, legs shaking, can barely sip water yadda...

Police instantly around.[/quote]
I'm a dispatcher/999 call handler the police.
Again and again on here I repeat

let us make the decision. It might be nothing. Or the family you've raised a concern for might have history markers all over them that their kids are at risk and I'm going to send a unit as soon as possible to check on that child and raise concerns with our child protection teams. . I'd rather you'd called 999 if it's happening now and you're worried - because if it's not an emergency we'll tell you to call 101. Which is manned by the same staff as on 999, just in a different telephony streaming setting.

We are the experts in whether something warrants a 999 call, not some idiot on MN who has no experience of policing.