Hairdresser's testimony at Tustin trial

[FallingStar21]

I know there have been several threads discussing various details around the case.. But having read the complete timeline and hairdresser's testimony, i just absolutely cannot believe that neither she or her partner called the police!
For example, she had been at Tustin's house doing her hair for 4 hours and Arthir made to sit at a table and not move for the entire time. She says she just thought he'd been naughty or something. No alarm bells ringing, really?
Different time she witnessed Arthur made to stand by the door, but not move or lean on the door etc.. Arthur given a sandwich to eat by the door while Tustin eating in the garden with the other kids... No alarm bells.
Witnessing Arthur being shouted at horrible words.
Finally, hairdresser at Tustin's with her (hairdresser's) partner seeing Arthur so frail and by their own accounts "petrified". They know Arthur had been deprived of water, because hairdresser's partner gives him a glass of water in secret... a glass, which Arthur cant even hold up to his mouth (all in their testimony) ...No Alarm bells, no nothing?!
If they were previously unsure whether they needed to do something, that last account couldn't have been more crystal clear.
I know legally it's viewed differently, but IMO these people are almost complicit in this... They too, had the responsibility to protect him once they'd seen what they saw, which was really black and white.
Just cant believe it.

Arthur died less than 24 hours after being at the hairdressers. She could have been deliberating whether to report. I don't doubt she'll be distressed about the 'what if' for the rest of her life.

I'd direct my fury at the authorities who did know something was wrong from the other reports received, and didn't act to protect him.

If tyere is a law however to severely deal with people complicit then that could have been the push they needed when agonising over a 20 grand fine.
Safe guarding should always trump everything.

@cheerfulpanda

Arthur died less than 24 hours after being at the hairdressers. She could have been deliberating whether to report. I don't doubt she'll be distressed about the 'what if' for the rest of her life.

I'd direct my fury at the authorities who did know something was wrong from the other reports received, and didn't act to protect him.

They weren’t deliberating. They both said in the trial that how people “discipline” their children isn’t theirs to comment on. That’s what they said. There was no “should I report this?” going on. Let’s not make excuses for these people. It’s all there, black and white in the live trial feed if people want to read it.

It’s very important people openly condemn these people for not reporting - it needs to be clear that in future situations like this people have to report, report, report and ring 999 in these specific sorts of circumstances.

Arthur died less than 24 hours after being at the hairdressers.

The attack was less than 2 hours after she saw him. He was at her house two days in a row. They returned home from the hairdressers around 1pm and ET attacked him at 2:30pm. If the hairdresser or her partner had called NSPCC or SS the day before there’s a chance his death could have been prevented.

Why is there yet another competitive shock/grief/horror thread about this topic? FFS. It's like the gutter press sank even lower around here sometimes.

First and foremost panda it's the perps who deserve our anger but yes, that's the really frustrating part.
Whilst they absolutely should have reported, let's say they did, risked the 20 grand fine... And again nothing was done? Arthur popped into bed and told them he was ill and not been well.
And whoever investigates (wrong word to use here as no proper investigation was done) says.. Ok ta ta.

It’s very important people openly condemn these people for not reporting - it needs to be clear that in future situations like this people have to report, report, report and ring 999 in these specific sorts of circumstances.

This.

Honestly, and I know it’s very easy to say what you think you would do if you were in that situation, but they said he was so weak he couldn’t hold a glass of water, his legs were shaking so much he could hardly get himself up the stairs, his collar bones were protruding through his pyjamas, his lips were dry and chapped, he was gaunt and “broken”, the man said he had a look of fear in his eyes.

I’d have struggled no to lift the child there and then and take him to a police station.

@KaptainKaveman

Why is there yet another competitive shock/grief/horror thread about this topic? FFS. It's like the gutter press sank even lower around here sometimes.

Why bother to open a thread you’re not interested in engaging properly with and reply just to be nasty? You can just scroll past or even hide threads about Arthur’s case if you think it’s wrong to discuss things. It’s an appalling case and people want to discuss it. That’s actually a very normal, human reaction.

I thought the exact same thing.

@Alltheblue

How many times have posters here asked if they should report and been subjected to abuse and a reminder that they could not possibly know what was going on and saw 'a snapshot' of a family without context.

Posters have been vilified and abused for suggesting they make a report.

Yep, every thread like that there are at least a few posters saying mind your own, could be more to it etc. Not regarding this case as it was stone cold abuse, but in general some people are wary of reporting neglect because they don't want to get the family in trouble- because they're 'trying their best' but struggling. The view of social services need to change, its not to dob people in or get them in trouble, it's to protect the child. For some that means offering parents support, for others obviously it's in the best interest for the child to be removed. There's also a fear by some that they will be able to identify who reported them, in this case it would be true as they were the only ones there and there have been lapses where SS have shared where the report is from; but on the whole reports are anonymous and people should be encouraged to do so.

Bagel I hope this thread isn't turned into another defense thread sparked from bizzare comments like that ^^

The whole UK is talking about this, this is a chat forum. It's vital people do share about it and I can't see competition for grief here only an interesting exchange of ideas.

I work near dc and I find people's contributions mostly incredibly insightful and helpful.
Change needs to happen.

Cattipus often the people causing issues are people you don't really want to be involved with
They can be really scary and yes they would know who reported what.

The people who receive these reports need training and education on just how agonising it can be to make reports.
Yes some are malicious but usually its taken some soul searching and wondering what to do.

How someone sees this, understands and acknowledges it's abuse and does nothing but feel relief when they don't have to see it. Knowing that Arthur was going for more of the same? No it likely wouldn't have helped Arthur, sadly but that doesn't change the fact that there are two people out there that can let this slide.
As shit as that is there were specialist people involved already who could have saved Arthur who didn't act even when evidence of abuse was forced on them.

I think people are grossly underestimating the great swathes of fundamentally inadequate people there are in this country. So bloody depressing. Each generation more stupid and hopeless than the one before. More usually, it's a child murdered by a stepfather with its own mother taking a secondary role, and then the birth father emerges at some point to say how horrific it all is, and you think - 'Well, where were you, pal?' This time, it's the birth mother and we know where she is - fucking prison, serving time for manslaughter. Not exactly a model of rectitude, then. And the wider family equally fucking shit. It's like that fucking horrific case of Suzanne Capper, which you could Google if you have the stomach. There again there was a ringleader, surrounded by a load of fucking inadequate lackeys who could have intervened but didn't because they were variously scared, thick as fuck, or in her thrall. These people don't want to engage with the police or social devices. They won't lift a finger to inconvenience, let alone actually imperil themselves. It'll never end. Never.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

I agree op but yes there were a few things going on, as pp said, covid. They weren't supposed to be mixing although school had gone back at that point? They seemed scared of tustin. I expect their own expectations of parenting are so incredibly low if the man thought he shouldn't interfere with other people's "disciplining" of dc.

A law that makes by standers complicit would certainly help.
I saw the testimony and was horrified by it but actually seeing the footage of just how weak he was?.

I really do feel they need to be charged with something.

A law that makes bystanders complicit is not a sensible idea. You'll simply end up with people denying they ever saw or noticed anything in the first place and refusing to engage or cooperate in any subsequent proceedings, to protect themselves. This is not to say the hairdresser shouldn't have reported, she certainly should, but your suggestion would be counterproductive.

@VikingOnTheFridge I think you’re right in that sense. But I think in this particular case they should have been charged with child cruelty as the cruelty took place in their home, over a period of 2 days, for many hours, and neither of them did anything to stop it.

I’m not sure what further laws / procedures could be put in place to encourage or provoke people into reporting - I don’t have the legal understanding or knowledge to suggest it but there must be more we can do. Even if it’s just a media campaign about how to report abuse - and that you can report anonymously. Many threads on here show that it’s clear people actually don’t even know who to report or how to report.

I wonder if she and her partner have realized they could probably have saved his life. They witnessed a fragile child being deprived of water and thought they were helping by sneaking him a drink?! It would have been the ideal time to call the police. All they did was buy him a bit more time.

I think because this person came across as normal and not a cartoon villain, they refused to accept what they could see in front of them.

It's awful, the hairdresser and her boyfriend share some blame. If you can stand by and see a child being abused, you are just as guilty as the person doing it. They should have been calling the authorities and logging it. Arthur was let down by many many people, who all played some part in his death. The sad thing is there's probably many more kids out there going through things like this.

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@VikingOnTheFridge I think you’re right in that sense. But I think in this particular case they should have been charged with child cruelty as the cruelty took place in their home, over a period of 2 days, for many hours, and neither of them did anything to stop it.

I’m not sure what further laws / procedures could be put in place to encourage or provoke people into reporting - I don’t have the legal understanding or knowledge to suggest it but there must be more we can do. Even if it’s just a media campaign about how to report abuse - and that you can report anonymously. Many threads on here show that it’s clear people actually don’t even know who to report or how to report.[/quote]
Improving awareness of how to report abuse would be better than trying to sanction people for not doing it yeah. Particularly if there are more lockdowns or restrictions, so there's awareness that child protection structures are still (somewhat) functioning.

Maybe even Mumsnet should run a campaign / banner ad about how to report abuse in the light of this case? (Clutching at straws here).

It’s horrible to feel so helpless about everything that’s happened.

I think it’s incredibly unfair to say the hairdresser & their partner should be charged with something.

It’s not uncommon for people to think, well I’m just the hairdresser seeing a tiny snippet of the situation. I’m sure the boys family, neighbours, teachers etc. have reported it (which they had actually). I’ll not get involved, they’ll know the situation better than me.

You also have to look at the bigger picture. If this couple knew they could be charged with not reporting this they wouldn’t have come forward to testify at the trial. They would have kept what they’d seen to themselves. Making it more likely that Tustin the ACTUAL abuser would be free right now.

If you don’t have 10k or 20k to spare, which I imagine they didn’t as the reason they was still working when they shouldn’t be, of course they would be too scared to report. People say do it anonymously, but they have the number you called from and it would be easy for them to find out who you where.

Of course a boys life is worth more than 20k, but I imagine the hairdresser and her boyfriend were shitting themselves.
Plus everyone says you should stay out of other peoples business, that’s the consensus, so whilst they are part of it, I don’t think they can be held for any blame, how was they to know what Tustin was going to do.

I think there are a lot of people, in mumsnet and in the real world who genuinely have no idea what some people and communities are really like.
Look at the Wigan thread as an example.
Someone living in an area full of scum bags says its shit living surrounded by scum bags, and while some agreed lots say she's just prejudiced and judgemental, and not opening her eyes to see the best.

The truth is, some people are scum and some places are full of them, and anyone normal living there has two choices, keep your head down and get on with your own life, or speak up and be terrorised yourself.
Heck, one piece of advice on how to live in a place like that was that you become desensitised to bad parenting, people smacking kids and shouting at each other.
You can't report every time, you have to protect youre own health and wellbeing.
Now we're being told to report absolutely everything suspicious.
Its unfortunate fact of life in, and what we consider terrible parenting or even neglect and cruelty is perfectly normal to others.

@JuicySatsuma85

I think it’s incredibly unfair to say the hairdresser & their partner should be charged with something.

It’s not uncommon for people to think, well I’m just the hairdresser seeing a tiny snippet of the situation. I’m sure the boys family, neighbours, teachers etc. have reported it (which they had actually). I’ll not get involved, they’ll know the situation better than me.

You also have to look at the bigger picture. If this couple knew they could be charged with not reporting this they wouldn’t have come forward to testify at the trial. They would have kept what they’d seen to themselves. Making it more likely that Tustin the ACTUAL abuser would be free right now.

It would also basically be a tool for abusers.

You can't grass me up now, you've been living next door/doing my hair/cleaning my house for ages now, they won't believe you never saw anything and you'll go to prison too. That's how the script will go.

Each generation more stupid and hopeless than the one before.

Ffs. What utter shit