Hairdresser's testimony at Tustin trial

[FallingStar21]

I know there have been several threads discussing various details around the case.. But having read the complete timeline and hairdresser's testimony, i just absolutely cannot believe that neither she or her partner called the police!
For example, she had been at Tustin's house doing her hair for 4 hours and Arthir made to sit at a table and not move for the entire time. She says she just thought he'd been naughty or something. No alarm bells ringing, really?
Different time she witnessed Arthur made to stand by the door, but not move or lean on the door etc.. Arthur given a sandwich to eat by the door while Tustin eating in the garden with the other kids... No alarm bells.
Witnessing Arthur being shouted at horrible words.
Finally, hairdresser at Tustin's with her (hairdresser's) partner seeing Arthur so frail and by their own accounts "petrified". They know Arthur had been deprived of water, because hairdresser's partner gives him a glass of water in secret... a glass, which Arthur cant even hold up to his mouth (all in their testimony) ...No Alarm bells, no nothing?!
If they were previously unsure whether they needed to do something, that last account couldn't have been more crystal clear.
I know legally it's viewed differently, but IMO these people are almost complicit in this... They too, had the responsibility to protect him once they'd seen what they saw, which was really black and white.
Just cant believe it.

Do people seriously believe that the police would have focused on a covid breach in this case and not the fact a child was dying ?

I can tell you that our directives in those early days were engage and educate. Not fine . And I think any sane normal person would have known that a child's life takes precedence over a covid breach . Police would not have been interested in the breach . If someone had got into that house in a professional capacity they'd have focused on that child .

Agree @OhMyCrump. I work in an area like this. Most MNetters have no clue.

Torture of a child in the systematic way that happened to poor Arthur is abnormal and condemned everywhere, but people’s thresholds for intervening, fear of the authorities, fear of their neighbours if they snitch and general level of disengagement are totally different from less heart sink areas.

'Do people seriously believe that the police would have focused on a covid breach in this case and not the fact a child was dying ?'

Yes it does seem farfetched. I'll be interested to hear the police and ss side of this when it is investigated.

Do people seriously believe that the police would have focused on a covid breach in this case and not the fact a child was dying

One of the people who reported concerns about Arthur to the police (his uncle, I think) was threatened with arrest under lockdown rules if he went to their house.

‘Do people seriously believe that the police would have focused on a covid breach in this case and not the fact a child was dying ?'

They threatened to arrest Arthur’s Uncle when he said he was going to go around to their house, because it would be breaching lockdown rules.

@BorgQueen

‘Mind your own business’ is the message given to all of us from childhood, people are conditioned to have that as a default setting. You’ve only got to see the countless threads where people have witnessed clearly abusive behaviour and ask what they should do, plenty of posters tell them to keep their nose out. That’s how it happens. People conditioned into ignoring their own empathy and common sense.

100% true. I was sexually abused in my family amongst other abuse. I knew I couldn't tell. The other parent knew and didn't do anything about it. Conditioning. Certain social groups in society 'look after their own' and don't 'interfere'. It's a toxic unwritten rule.

'One of the people who reported concerns about Arthur to the police (his uncle, I think) was threatened with arrest under lockdown rules if he went to their house'

Has this been documented as fact though, did the police confirm it? Or is it just what the Uncle said? You wonder with families like this if they are very accurate with their recollections.

I think many people are scared of reporting ‘what they may have seen’ because it’s easy to get it wrong? How many times do we see posts on here where people are unsure wether to report something to NSPCC or social services, mainly because they are worried about the parents in question finding out it was them? It’s all good and well saying what we would have done in the hair dressers situation but we were not in that situation. If she had reported it that last day where she saw the child, when he could hardly hold a glass of water, do you think social services would have got there in time to save Arthur? I doubt it very much 😢. I’m sure they feel very guilty for not reporting it as I’m sure others are too. I’m sure his grandmother is regretting not doing more. Many people have failed this child and a lot needs to be learnt from it.

People need to feel that they can report and concerns to social services without being named and social services need to be chasing things up quicker and more thoroughly, we need more social workers (there’s a huge shortage and they just don’t have the time to do their job properly).

These are just as guilty. No decent person could witness such blatant cruelty and SAY NOTHING?
Heck, what is it with people on these estates?
Ignoring abuse because it’s “ Not my business”?
It is EVERYONE’S business to report and call out cruelty.

Agree with most of the comments here (apart from those making excuses for the individuals concerned and those suggesting it's a "grief competition") But either way I appreciate everyone's input and yes, that a LOT needs to change in encouragement to report and the system itself. So many chances missed.. I do not understand why there was only a single visit and why these "trained" social workers were satisfied so easily; why the other reports were ignored and they never came back.
The police telling the uncle he can't go around due to covid. Well police could easily have done a welfare check themselves.
The school (from what I gathered) had told the grandma about Arthur's nightmares of his dad killing him. Such an alarming thing for a 6 year old boy to say. Schools have safe guarding teams, perhaps they could have got involved and put further pressure on the socials.
I refuse to buy into the common excuses of"overworked", "budget cuts", etc. They did not do their job and their job saves lives, simple as that. Same as a negligent doctor, who blames it on having too many patients and NHS cuts.
That is the scary part, that we really cannot rely on these agencies and yet, they are the only ones authorized to intervene. I really feel there needs to be some kind of system, where authorities can be challenged and where (if you are a really concerned member of the family or even the public) you could request/demand more support and further investigation from them.
Sorry about the long post.

'It’s all good and well saying what we would have done in the hair dressers situation but we were not in that situation'

If I had to sneak a dc some water I'd have done something.

Different if say she'd heard the dm shouting abuse like we often hear reported on mn and posters are told to myob but sneaking water fo a dc is a massive red flag. The 'hairdresser' should've challenged the sm or the father.

@stillinacaravaninatutu Totally agree, preservation of life comes first and foremost, I can't decide if i would prefer to see them die a slow and painful death or just hang the bastards now.

What is documented is multiple examples of police failing to follow this engage and educate guidance in spring 2020. Presumably nobody is delusional enough to pretend that's what was happening when a man was arrested in Fallowfield because he moved a tree for his vulnerable mother, when police told a man he wasn't allowed in his own garden, when shoppers were told their trollies would be checked for non essential items.

It's all very well writing these off as isolated errors, bad apples etc but even if they were (which we have no idea of) they had an impact. Made people afraid. You can see posts on here about the impact that fear was having at the time, fear specifically stemming from completely inappropriate policing. That has an impact.

@Alltheblue

How many times have posters here asked if they should report and been subjected to abuse and a reminder that they could not possibly know what was going on and saw 'a snapshot' of a family without context.

Posters have been vilified and abused for suggesting they make a report.

I have reported worrying behaviour before. We could hear our former neighbours through the walls screaming at their DC. I could hear them when I didn't have my hearing aids in, it was that loud (and sweary, tiny kids being subjected to foul language).

I don't care if anyone I report has MH or other issues. Reporting will flag up any issues that need medical attention or additional help, and any DC will be on the SS radar.

We are all being conditioned to keep our noses out, so to get to the point of calling up means I feel that something is absolutely wrong. I'd rather report and get it wrong, than risk a child dying.

I know that there's the possibility that nothing is wrong and that it could be behaviour out of context, but I feel (and felt) that I have a duty to report. These former neighbours moved suddenly, but I hope the DC aren't still being subjected to that screaming. And who knows what other behaviour was going on?

2 people have made me super angry in this case (beyond the monsters behind bars).
The hairdresser; the water account is truly distressing and horrifying. Then the head of Solihull social services who was happy to take her £120k+ working from home, whilst her organisation was failing under her shocking leadership, and has now distanced herself from any accountability.
The 2 of them have really enraged me.

@stillvicarinatutu I got your name wrong before sorry. I do agree with you 100%, Preservation of life is the job at the time, the police would have ignored the arseholes who were breaching covid laws at that moment in time.

@Fritilleries

The entire group of people come across as incredibly thick. What is the world coming to?

I didn't want to say this, but it's my interpretation of it all. They all seem to have very limited intelligence. ET filming it all and not realising she was sealing her own fate in the process.

Let's suppose they did report it. I doubt anything would have happened. After all, Arthur's own relatives complained and reported many times and fuck all happened.

I think the hairdresser probably feared a fine for breaching covid rules, so didn't report. At the time there was a lot of over reaction to covid and lockdown, it was a national obsession to report covid breaches and expect fines etc.

Doesn't excuse the multiple people who failed to step in a save Arthur, shame on them.

@Bagelsandbrie

The hairdresser and boyfriend should have been charged with being complicit in child torture. No excuses whatsoever. None.

Agree with this. Standing by and doing nothing should not be an option.

More engagement and education. Nothing to see here!

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19544482.accrington-make-something-up-pc-gets-iopc-warning/

I agree with PP who said that they hope SS are keeping a very close eye on that hairdresser's children. You only ignore something like this if your own parenting is not so many steps removed.

@stillvicarinatutu

It amazes me that people do nothing and social services do t ring police for jobs that matter but will to g the most petty concerns in .

Just this week seen a horrific case of child neglect. Social services aware but because the parents refused to engage they didn't act .
By pure fluke a person with some ioata of decency and common sense rang 101 after mistakenly encountering what was happening inside that house .

I've just seen a national review is going to be conducted. For me - when parents will not speak to social services or won't let them in the immediate thing to do would be a joint visit with police who do have the power to enter. This will just happen again and again otherwise. And people need to report and not be fearful of consequences.

Totally agree. If SS are refused access to investigate a child neglect/abuse report then that shouldn’t mean case closed. It should mean they acknowledge it as a red flag and take the next step which should be ask for police assistance to perform a welfare check.

@ToughTittyWhompus

If you’ve lived in a nice bubble your whole life, you’ll never understand what these areas are like.

I lived on a council estate for almost a decade. The shit that went on there, you wouldn’t believe. The vast majority of people think it’s normal to smoke weed/get drunk/use other drugs around your children, to not take them to school every day, to have an endless parade of different blokes around their kids, to have parties till 3am, to thump anyone who disagrees with you, to be a grass or a snitch is the worst thing ever, to slash tyres, brick windows, etc etc.

I knew at least 10 families who’d had SS involvement for years - who were aware of the drug use, neglect and abuse but never removed the children. I only know of 1 who had her children permanently removed, when all of them should have been. All of these families had been raised the same way, surrounded by other families being raised that way, and so don’t see the issue with them raising their kids that way.

If anyone on here comments like this, we get called judgmental arseholes.

Yep. A lot of people on here live in a bubble and are totally unaware of some of the underclass scrotes that live in this country. I have people in my extended family who if they were on fire and I had a glass of water, I'd drink the water! People who've had kids put into care, drug addicts, a suspected peadophile, the list goes on. I was brought up in a nice area, away from these dregs of society, but I know they exist as I'm related to them.

Hang them high !! Two evil monsters ....I’m sickened to the core..,never ever been so disturbed or upset by anything in my whole life ! The video is so sad of him with his duvet it killed me shame on everyone that could have stopped this