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Original poster

Surcharge for unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment for covid

159 replies

Bwix · 05/12/2021 09:00

I’m just reading in the Times this morning how much cancer care, treatment of kidney and heart disease and organ transplants are being delayed and disrupted due to the strain on the NHS by unvaccinated patients. Of people needing the most intervention, 90% are unvaccinated.

Not all of these will be unvaccinated for medical reasons. We have had vaccines available for all adults for months now. I think it is reasonable for people to decide not to have a vaccine (just as they might want to drive fast without a seatbelt or climb a mountain face without a harness). But there should be a consequence that they face as individuals, as a result of that decision: that if they need care as a consequence of something they could have prevented, that they pick up the bill.

I’m really upset to know that friends and relatives with cancer may die as a result of their treatment being delayed, and it’s due to strains on the system that could be avoided.

OP posts:
ShiftingSands21 · 05/12/2021 09:02

My DH’s treatment is also delayed but I can’t see a surcharge fixing anything and it also seems pretty mean.

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 05/12/2021 09:02

What if they don't have £100,000 lying around to pay for their treatment?

insancerre · 05/12/2021 09:03

The strain on the nhs is from underfunding by the government

PrivateHall · 05/12/2021 09:04

So what about people with cancer who are obese or smokers, shall we charge them too?

sunflowerroses · 05/12/2021 09:07

My cancer operation was cancelled this week because of covid and I'm angry and bitter and wonder why it's ok to delay life saving treatment to who knows when, but don't think we can go down a charging route on the NHS.

I like we should limit activities in society unvaccinated people (by choice) can participate in though like in some other countries)

Ylvamoon · 05/12/2021 09:08

Where would you stop? Diabetics type 2? Smokers? Problems with jonts due to extreme sports?

Itsalmostanaccessory · 05/12/2021 09:09

I fractured my leg skydiving. Should I have paid?

I chose to give birth to 2 children. Should I have paid?

I see your point as things can be different in a global disaster which this pandemic is, but can you not see where the government will take this if they are allowed to set a precedent? Bad bad idea.

cupcakedaisy · 05/12/2021 09:11

What about people who choose to smoke, drink, eat junk food, risky sports, driving too fast, etc - are we going to charge them too?

Whatafustercluck · 05/12/2021 09:12

I totally understand your anger, op.

But, no I don't believe a surcharge should be added. It would be a slippery slope wouldn't it and where do you draw the line? Smokers? Those whose bmi is above 25? Those who enjoy too much sugar?

We'd be better off making vaccination mandatory than imposing surcharges (although I have to say that even that would be a bold step and I'm not sure where I stand on the issue).

Chocolatewheatos · 05/12/2021 09:13

Can we also charge those cancer patients who are smokers, sun bed users/didn't use suncream, charge the alcoholics and drug users too, can we also charge people for their pregnancy services since you chose to get pregnant?

Or do those of us who work pay into a system so that we have medical care when we need it, whether we choose not to be vaccinated, to smoke, to drive drunk, to go cycling in bad weather. A huge proportion of people in hospital are there as a direct result of the choices they made.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/12/2021 09:14

That's not a practical solution. Here is the Times article referred to.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l?shareToken=9619cb2762115c819a1eb4ae1c6f8e70

bloodywhitecat · 05/12/2021 09:15

My husband will die as a result of the delays to his treatment but I don't see how surcharges will help.

Fl0w3ry · 05/12/2021 09:15

I have said this sort of thing from the start. It seems very unfair that the unvaccinated (through choice rather than a medical reason for not having it) are clogging up the hospitals and taking care away from people who have illnesses through no fault of their own. As we are reading in the papers though, many of the people who have chosen to be unvaccinated are facing the biggest consequence for being unvaccinated - sadly losing their lives with the huge regret that they didn’t have the vaccine. It’s tragic. Having covid that severe must be so frightening, but it must be unbearable knowing that they could have potentially saved themselves by having the vaccine. And it must be awful seeing the unnecessary pain they have caused their families.

Chocolatewheatos · 05/12/2021 09:16

What we needs for people to direct this anger at the government who are giving huge government grants of pax payer money to their palls for nothing. That money should be going to the NHS so we can afford to treat all ill people.

Porcupineintherough · 05/12/2021 09:19

Can we stop with the spurrious comparisons to high risk sports? The nhs hasn't ground to a halt due to skydiving accidents.

Its tempting OP when dealing w idiots that wont vaccinate but then have no problem taking any medical treatment no matter how experimental to save their lives, but I'm not sure it would really help.

Lion1618 · 05/12/2021 09:19

If you're going to agree with a surcharge for those who are unjabbed then I suppose you will also have to support surcharges for being obese, smoking, drinking alcohol or taking more risky lifestyle choices. Happy with that?

SW1amp · 05/12/2021 09:22

Smokers are different because tobacco sales have been taxed through the roof for decades specifically to cover the costs (and waaaaay more) of treating smoking diseases.

Sugar tax has been long proposed for similar reasons for obesity and diabetes.

I agree with the concept on a philosophical level but in practice, it would be impossible to implement or enforce
The cohort of anti vaxxers/vaccine refusers I know are the least able to afford paying anything so nothing much would be achieved chasing them through the courts for money they don’t have and are never going to earn, and will just make them even more angry and anti-establishment

And look at the US. Isn’t the state something like 70% of all bankruptcy orders are due to medical bills?
It doesn’t actually benefit anyone. The hospitals go unpaid, the debtors have their lives upended by bankruptcy, and the children of the debtors suffer greatly

SpindlesWinterWhorl · 05/12/2021 09:22

Is the 'whataboutery' employed here logical, though?

Yes people end up in hospital for various conditions exacerbated by lifestyle. But there are no easily available vaccines for them. There are for covid-19. That's the point that a number of doctors are making and which causes them some frustration.

spotcheck · 05/12/2021 09:23

@bloodywhitecat

My husband will die as a result of the delays to his treatment but I don't see how surcharges will help.
💐 Sorry to hear that
WhyMeLord · 05/12/2021 09:23

there should be a consequence that they face as individuals, as a result of that decision

There is - being hospitalised with covid.

If the government dished out surcharges for peoples dubious choices we’d all be bankrupt, but consoled by beautiful marble roads and gold plated bin lorries.

girlmom21 · 05/12/2021 09:24

@insancerre

The strain on the nhs is from underfunding by the government
It's from piss poor management. Various governments have given the NHS more and more money but they've got the same people 'running' the shit show.
girlmom21 · 05/12/2021 09:26

@bloodywhitecat

My husband will die as a result of the delays to his treatment but I don't see how surcharges will help.
I'm so sorry Thanks
pointythings · 05/12/2021 09:29

No, because it would completely undermine the core principle of the NHS, which is that it is free at the point of need. I'm fully on board with Singapore stopping free treatment for COVID for the unvaccinated because that chimes with how their system works - free COVID treatment is a privilege and an exception to their rules. Here in the NHS it's different and we shouldn't mess with it.

I do think that people who refuse the vaccine without a valid medical reason need their heads examining and if they do end up in hospital and people are a bit cool towards them, I'm fine with that.

Kamelion · 05/12/2021 09:32

It’s the thin end of the wedge though isn’t it? Surcharge for the unvaccinated today, surcharge for smokers, for overweight people, for people who’re injured skiing, people who leave roller skates on the stairs. Access to health services shouldn’t be based on moral judgments, however selfish the recipients are.

Tootsey11 · 05/12/2021 09:34

I don't know about the rest of the UK, but here in Northern Ireland a high amount of beds are being taken up by bed blockers. They are more than ready to leave but have no care package available due to no staff for at home care. There are care home places but won't take them. Stop blaming the unvaccinated op there are many factors at play