Surcharge for unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment for covid

[Bwix]

I’m just reading in the Times this morning how much cancer care, treatment of kidney and heart disease and organ transplants are being delayed and disrupted due to the strain on the NHS by unvaccinated patients. Of people needing the most intervention, 90% are unvaccinated.

Not all of these will be unvaccinated for medical reasons. We have had vaccines available for all adults for months now. I think it is reasonable for people to decide not to have a vaccine (just as they might want to drive fast without a seatbelt or climb a mountain face without a harness). But there should be a consequence that they face as individuals, as a result of that decision: that if they need care as a consequence of something they could have prevented, that they pick up the bill.

I’m really upset to know that friends and relatives with cancer may die as a result of their treatment being delayed, and it’s due to strains on the system that could be avoided.

@sunflowerroses

My cancer operation was cancelled this week because of covid and I'm angry and bitter and wonder why it's ok to delay life saving treatment to who knows when, but don't think we can go down a charging route on the NHS.

I like we should limit activities in society unvaccinated people (by choice) can participate in though like in some other countries)

I can totally understand your anger and bitterness, but was the surgery cancelled because the surgeon has covid or because (s)he is being redeployed. I wouldn't have thought that cancer experts were covid experts?

Like others say, charge for covid, charge for the following:

Cancer patients who smoke, are obese, have unhealthy lifestyles
Liver patients who drink
Flu victims without a job
Covid patients who are vaccinated but haven’t been strictly following scientific advice
Injured people engaging in sport
People injured through negligence/stupidity
People who have tried to take their own lives
People with HIV who have had unprotected sex

Yet another poster fixated on covid trying to demonise a group of people and blame them for an inadequate nhs.

@millymolls

Well I’d put a surcharge on all obese people ( biggest drain on nhs resources statistically ) All smokers All drinkers Anyone who hasnt paid as much tax and ni as I have

Etc

Nhs is terribly over consumed rather than under funded. Throwing endless pots of money won’t solve it ever

Again, with the endless pots of money nonsense.

It is actually funded by our taxes by the way. If we move away to a different model we still have to pay.

Charging people on a “per fault” basis is stupid as many have illustrated on this thread. Where would that end?

The nhs is actually pretty efficient. It’s just hard to get your head around the huge sums of money involved - but what do you expect for a cradle to grave service with a population of over 60 million? It’s about £3,000 per head per year.

When you dig into the cost of treatments then actually that’s pretty good value IMO.

@insancerre

The strain on the nhs is from underfunding by the government

Outside of the usual Budget or Spending Review process, the government announced around £12 billion of additional spending for the Department of Health and Social Care for each year between 2022−23 and 2024−25.

It is also worth noting that even without any top up, health spending is set to account for an ever-growing share of total day-to-day public service spending: 44% by 2024−25, up from 42% in 2019−20. At that rate of increase the NHS will prepresent 50% of ALL government spending.

Perhaps we need to examine exactly how and where that money is being spent because there will come a time when health service spending is simply unsustainable ?.

It is also worth noting that even without any top up, health spending is set to account for an ever-growing share of total day-to-day public service spending: 44% by 2024−25, up from 42% in 2019−20. At that rate of increase the NHS will prepresent 50% of ALL government spending

Where do those figures come from? IFS?

I understand that that is based on the premise of being 40% around now, which has been fact checked to be wrong?

Great idea op!
And all high earners should be excluded from using the NHS because they can afford to go private
All maternity services should be stopped because really people could give birth at home without costing the NHS money
No treatment for people injured in car crashes because cars are bad for the environment and people choose to take the risk when getting in a car.

Were you just looking to stir up a bit of froth today?

OP
Not this crap again
How about refunding the unvaccinated the equivalent of the cost of vaccination - as obviously that is not free and is paid by everyone's contributions ( that includes unvaccinated as well)
So maybe if we calculate that cost per vaccinated person and give that to each unvaccinated person maybe they could put that towards their treatment?
And if they never need any covid treatment they could keep the money???
Would be crazy and insane to suggest that, right???

How about a surcharge for obese people needing heart treatment too OP.

Or for smokers with chest problems.

Anyone who drinks for anything alcohol related.

You're being ridiculous

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates

How about refunding the unvaccinated the equivalent of the cost of vaccination - as obviously that is not free and is paid by everyone's contributions ( that includes unvaccinated as well)

Pfizer is the expensive one and that's £22 per dose in the UK.

I would happily pay these idiots their £22 and revoke their rights to treatment for covid. It would be a massive positive effect on health funding.

It's from piss poor management. Various governments have given the NHS more and more money but they've got the same people 'running' the shit show.

Exactly. It's a money pit that badly needs reform. Throwing more money at it doesn't work.

This idea that the hospitals are "clogged" with unvaccinated is daft. You could then say the hospitals are "clogged" with anyone who has ever made poor lifestyle choices. Obesity, coronary disease, diabetes, the list is huge really. The fact that we have a normalised unhealthy drinking culture too. So many people are alcoholics without thinking. So many people are clinically obese and think it's ok until they hit 50 and get some other diagnosis linked to the obesity. The hospital's have been disfunctional, lacking in beds with huge waiting lists for the last 10 years before covid came along.

@SofiaMichelle

Pfizer is the expensive one and that's £22 per dose in the UK.

You obviously forgot all the costs associated with the vaccination process, right?
Do you really think that the full cost of vaccination per vaccine per person is £22???

@fakereview first time my op it was cancelled as surgeon had to isolate, second time I don't know exactly why, I'm trying to work it out. It was blamed on covid and staffing at very last minute after isolating, testing and starving. This is private too, but surgery in an NHS theatre so still reliant on NHS staffing.

@fakereview surgeon was there and ready to go but still needed NHS nursing care for recovery which apparently wasn't available because of 'covid'. I don't know the detail though and trying to find out.

@PinkiOcelot

Definitely not. Don’t be ridiculous. Charge fat people, smokers and drinkers as well. Where would it end? There may not be a vaccine for smokers or fat people but no one is forcing them to smoke or over eat.

I’m sick of “the unvaccinated” being used all of the time. Why not just put a stamp on their foreheads? Unclean?!!

100%

[quote MrsBillyNoJagNoMates]@SofiaMichelle

Pfizer is the expensive one and that's £22 per dose in the UK.

You obviously forgot all the costs associated with the vaccination process, right?
Do you really think that the full cost of vaccination per vaccine per person is £22???[/quote]
Do you really think the vaccination centre and distribution costs would be increased to any great extent by an extra 10% of people being vaccinated, given they're running at nowhere near full capacity?

The cost of vaccination is absolutely tiny compared to £1,500 per day per bed in ICU.

There are currently approximately 800 unvaccinated people on mechanical ventilation in ICU for covid in the UK, so even ignoring all the other unvaccinated who are in ICU receiving other treatments than mech. ventilation , that's £8m per week wasted.

And we already know from the stats that you're 81 times more likely to need ICU treatment if you're unvaccinated.

Yeah I'm totally on board with this. Also, people who get cancer but haven't attended smears and mammograms etc. should be charged. That'll learn the bastards.

Women who knowingly continue high risk pregnancies should also be charged. They're choosing it so should definitely be made to pay if they expect care for them and the baby. Or maybe forced abortions would be cheaper for the NHS?

Hopefully none of the supporters of this idea will have a bad reaction to booster no.3 and not want to take no.4 or 5 or 6. They would be fine with then being classed as unvacconated and made to pay I assume?

I can't abide vaccine refusers, but as ridiculous as I think they are, we can't go down this route. It's the same principal of making smokers pay for cancer treatment. Where does it end? Do we charge overweight people? People injured doing a sport?

Most of us pay every month for our healthcare in the form of taxes. The problem is this country has changed so much since the NHS was formed, a bigger population, a different welfare system etc, it wasn't designed for the situation we are in now and it needs a huge overhaul.

I agree with the people who've mentioned the social care sector causing the NHS problems as well. It's on its knees and as a result people are bed blocking because they have nowhere to go. The care sector needs to be better paid and more respected to make jobs more appealing.

Brilliant idea! Adding surcharges to everyone who goes against NHS advice would save so much money- those who smoke, vape, drink alcohol, are sedentary, eat red meat regularly.

I’d hate to think one of my loved ones might not have treatment due to other people’s lifestyle choices!
I assume the op is/does non of these?
These threads are getting hysterical and ridiculous now.

YABU. Many injuries and illnesses are avoidable to some extent but people suffering from them don't get charged, I don't see that covid is any different. People who drive without a seatbelt (which is illegal) don't get charged for their treatment when they're injured in a crash.

My brother who’s 40 this week had a massive amount of intervention, in intensive care. He’s triple vaccinated. I don’t believe the stats. The hospital he’s in isn’t clogged with the unvaccinated. It’s actually clogged with the vaccinated.

I am vaccinated. 2 x AZ. But 73 deaths were attributed to AZ so I do not blame the unvaccinated for worrying about the vaccine. I had the second AZ despite the blood clot risk but still worried about it.

I was absolutely shitting myself about getting my 2x 12-15s done but again I risked it.

The unvaccinated are not some kind of scum.

9 deaths attributable to the vaccine.
blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

Obese people, alcoholics, drug addicts, people who take part in dangerous sports. Do they pay a surcharge too?