Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset by piano teacher comments

413 replies

FlibberdyGibbett · 02/12/2021 15:14

My 10 year old son ‘Josh’ has been having piano lessons for six weeks and I have received this text from his teacher.

“Josh seems to be struggling in his lessons. He complains his fingers are tired even after we have just started the lesson. This morning he told me he has been doing too much writing in class beforehand. He seems to talk a lot and doesn’t seem particularly interested. He tells me he practises on his iPad?? I’m not sure the piano is right for Josh, maybe consider a different instrument next term.”

AIBU to feel upset and my son is being unsupported?

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 02/12/2021 18:40

@FlibberdyGibbett

Not sure why so many people are assuming I’m pushing my child into learning a musical (piano or violin)? We talked earlier and it’s what HE wants!! Why shouldn’t he have an opportunity?
You need to buy a piano or a keyboard.

My DC got one at 5 and started proper lessons at 7.
During their time learning they practised for 20 mins every single day.

If he won't practise piano, how do you think he will practise the violin?

You need to talk to him and explain that the lessons are the tip of the iceberg. Learning to play is really 90% practise at home. If he can't see this or manage it, then he's too immature still or has an airy fairy idea of what is involved.

At 10 he ought to understand this.

Cindercat · 02/12/2021 18:43

Grin Violin will be way harder than piano, OP. Tbh, you are v much coming across as that parent. He might very well like the thought of playing an instrument but the actual path to getting to even a basic level of proficiency is pretty repetitive and arduous. He'll have to really be interested in learning to play and not just in playing. If he didn't practice the piano enough and wasn't interested during the lessons, what makes you think violin will be different? I'd certainly not be forking out for a better violin until he's proved he's committed to it.

Notmenotme · 02/12/2021 18:45

Good lord please tell me you haven’t signed him up for violin!!!!

I’m a music teacher and first instrument is piano… I’ve been doing violin for about 5 years, had two years of lessons before covid. I’m very musical and talented - and I sound god awful on the violin. I’ve practiced hours - and I am only just after 5 years able to stay mildly in tune!!

Your piano teacher was much kinder than I’ve been in the past!!!

Brigittebidet · 02/12/2021 18:46

DH is a piano and strings teacher. DS (12) could be very musically talented but will.not.learn.an.instrument. We've tried him on piano and brass. He just doesn't enjoy it. He's found something else that he loves and does three times a week and is quite happy doing that. It's sad, but it is what it is. It is something he came upon himself and I'm sure that's the reason he loves it so much. However much DH and I would like him to play something, it's not his thing.

DD is marginally more interested and is learning piano and violin with DH but practice is still a bit of a thing!

Let him find his own way. It's sad but true!

Georgie8 · 02/12/2021 18:47

🤣🤣🤣 sorry OP, but are we to assume you’re not musical?

You have to have an instrument to practise on -so for many people piano isn’t the best starter instrument -a keyboard isn’t a suitable substitute beyond the very early grades. Piano also require you to learn treble and bass clef -that’s like learning two languages. Let’s not even start about the feet becoming involved!

However, I always think it’s best to start on a portable instrument which you can play in groups -and that’s not the piano.

My children are very musical (play 3 instruments each and have done grade 8 in their favourites and are grade 7 in the others) and we’ve noticed their friends remaining on grade 3-ish for several years and thought, “why don’t you stop?”

As a family we (minus husband) play, ‘cello, viola, violin, clarinet, flute, oboe, and all play piano. But nothing is easy if you’re not interested.

Lessons are really hard for music teachers when they can see their pupils aren’t there through choice.

Don’t abandon music (great skill for maths and languages IMO) but find something portable that gives instant satisfaction. I’d go with the ukulele 🙂

Emails/text can seem a bit rude, but I think you’re lucky to have such an honest piano teacher.

TatianaBis · 02/12/2021 18:47

@FlibberdyGibbett

Not sure why so many people are assuming I’m pushing my child into learning a musical (piano or violin)? We talked earlier and it’s what HE wants!! Why shouldn’t he have an opportunity?

OP, in the nicest possible way get a grip.

He’s 10, which is quite late to start, those are difficult instruments - he needs something easier - flute, saxophone, guitar, guitar, drums.. etc

Violinist64 · 02/12/2021 18:48

I play and teach both piano and violin and can tell you unequivocally that the violin is MUCH harder than the piano. Depending on the person it can take quite a while to get a recognisable tune. You really have to be dedicated to it if you are going to be any good. If he is keen to learn an instrument but not sure which one to try, my suggestion would be to look at brass instruments, in particular the cornet or trumpet. Once you can blow a note, progress can be rapid and ten is the ideal age to start these instruments. If there are brass bands in your area he can gain a lot of experience and often tuition through these.

WonderfulYou · 02/12/2021 18:49

A lot of children are like him. They desperately want to learn something but then once they start it’s not as fun as they thought it would be.

I’d give him a break from it and see if he wants to start again or try something else.

I think it was nice that she was honest about it instead of encouraging you to keep paying for lessons.

Brigittebidet · 02/12/2021 18:49

Oh and by the way, violin is a bloody AWFUL noise when it's being learnt. I suggest the cello which is much more forgiving on the ears. Or, better still any brass, which is really quite easy comparatively to strings - he will make much more progress much more quickly with brass than with piano or strings. Also, once you've learnt one brass instrument (e.g. cornet) you can play them all other than trombone or horn.

Smartiepants79 · 02/12/2021 18:49

I do have to say I disagree with all the people saying don’t even bother. You’re pushing him…etc..
Both mine have piano lessons. They’re not musical prodigy’s but they’re doing ok for their age.
The youngest in particular wouldn’t have even tried it if I left it up to her. I insisted that she give it a good go for a year. She LOVES it.
I do think 6 weeks is not long enough to know if you want to do it or not. It does sound like this particular lesson set up is not right for your son.

TatianaBis · 02/12/2021 18:51

Violin and piano are hard in different ways - piano is easier upfront - but putting together 2 hands and sight-reading 2 clefs at once - is more challenging.

GrumpyTerrier · 02/12/2021 18:52

Maybe he just doesn't like her. I liked my first piano teacher. When she retired I tried 3 more and didn't like them so ended up not continuing. Kids can be funny about who they like and don't like.

Her message sounded ok and will save you money if he doesn't like the lessons/teacher/instrument.

alsonotmyname · 02/12/2021 18:52

The performance diploma is just that, how she performs not how she teaches - you can take it at any stage in your career even if you already have a music degree for example, it may be that she's doing it just for pleasure or maybe her first instrument is Violin and now she wants to take it in Piano too.

Yellownotblue · 02/12/2021 18:52

Six weeks is very little time to be drawing a line under an instrument. I would have thought a much longer commitment (at least a year or more) was needed before deciding DS is not interested. The basics are hard to learn - I speak with experience, I’m currently doing Grade 8 and my children are Grade 6 and Grade 4. I think the fun bit really only starts around Grade 5. So learning must absolutely be seen as a very long term commitment. He will reap the benefits later, but it will be years from now. It’s totally worth it though.

However, be warned that the violin is immeasurably more difficult. The piano is a breeze by comparison. I would really try hard and stick with the piano if I were you. If DS later wants to learn the violin, it will be much easier for him as he’ll know how to read music so can concentrate on the technique. It’s very hard to draw a beautiful sound out of a violin.

We’ve had many teachers over the years, and getting the right teacher makes an enormous difference. It may be that you should look for a different teacher, it doesn’t sound like your current one wants to work with complete beginners. It takes a lot of patience.

MeltedButter · 02/12/2021 18:53

Also she’s just billed me to pay for December lessons, but he missed 2 earlier in the month due to having Covid and she’s basically said she doesn’t carry missed lessons over?!

Sounds reasonable

pigsDOfly · 02/12/2021 18:53

If his fingers got tired in piano lessons I can't imagine how tired they'd get trying to wrap themselves around violin strings.

Definitely not easier than piano and takes a lot of dedication to achieve results.

What about singing?

Although if he can't sing that would be a non starter but if he can hold a tune at all he might find it more rewarding than slogging away at an instrument.

CMeredithC · 02/12/2021 18:54

I’m a professional musician OP, currently working with one of the top 5 orchestras in the world.

I’ve gone from being a 5 year old learning the recorder, through all the learning stages, music degree, performing, competing at international level, teaching kids and adults and everything in between. So this is all coming from my personal experience and professional opinion after years of learning, teaching and doing music.

To answer your most recent question, there is no such thing as a ‘qualified’ music teacher, unless you’re looking for a specific qualification yourself. A performance diploma sits right above Grade 8, and it’s (meant to be an) equivalent to the 1st year at conservatoire, so Level 4.

There are great and awful teachers with diplomas and degrees. There are great and awful teachers without them. There are people who just teach from what they can play, others have gone to conservatoire / done music at uni and are much more qualified on paper, which sometimes translates into practical teaching skills, and sometimes it doesn’t. They do normally have an incredibly higher standard of playing, and many will have taken pedagogy courses during their studies.

Now to the crux of the matter. Does your son know how to read music? Just basic stuff?

10 is not old to start learning an instrument. One of my best friends who is a principal player with the BBC Symphony Orchestra started at 12 and had graduated with honours from Juilliard 10 years later.

You can start music at any age, BUT you don’t teach a four year old the same way you teach a ten year old. The expectations and methods used will be different. At the age of 10 I would expect a student to very quickly learn some music theory because it will be very difficult to explain the technicalities of the instrument and pieces/exercises he’s trying to learn, if he doesn’t know the theory.

If your son can’t read music and hasn’t started doing theory, 90% of what the teacher says will sound like Japanese to him. Music is a foreign language. If I want to write poetry or read novels in Japanese, I first need to learn the characters and how to form words with them.

So it is not surprising that he isn’t very interested, it’s very possible he simply doesn’t understand what she’s asking of him. Of course, a good teacher would tell you this in advance, or would make sure s/he introduces theory concepts in the piano lesson itself. Regularly.

He needs a proper instrument to practise on. And he needs to practise it regularly. If he’s not keen on regular practice, that’s usually a clear sign that maybe formal music learning isn’t for him. This doesn’t mean ruling music out of his life by the way.

The violin is NOT easier than the piano. They are both complex instruments but an extra level of detail, precision and ‘natural ear’ is required for the violin. Because you need to learn how to actually make a note sound. On the piano you just press a key and there it is, perfectly in tune and everything.

Take the violin and bow to the teacher. Let her assess if they’re adequate or not. If she says they’re not good, trust her.

The amount of parents that used to send me links from this manufacturer in Tajikistan with cheap instruments, or photos of their grandma’s old instrument in the attic… If you want your child to learn an instrument, they need to practise on a proper one regularly. The instrument I play has a start value - for a beginner - of £10k. We couldn’t afford one for years so I would practise every lunchtime at school. When I got a bit older I’d also stay for another hour after school.

He might like the violin more than the piano, but if he still doesn’t know where an F# is on the stave, what 6/8 means or what the little numbers on top of the notes are, it will still sound like Japanese.

At 10 I would also expect focus and concentration, unless there are special needs. I had an 11 year old once who was more interested in chatting to me about her upcoming school trip than getting some playing done in the lesson. I gave her mother a similar message as the one you received (albeit in person). Don’t get me wrong, I chat to my students all the time about their schools and friends, but it’s 2-3 mins tops. A lesson is not for chatting.

I am personally not a fan of group lessons either, unless they’re very young. They don’t learn the same way, it goes much slower when there is another child there, because they will have different needs and abilities. Does she offer individual lessons? At least 30 mins a week is what I would recommend. Look into young musicians from a local music college if there is one nearby, as they’re often much more enthusiastic and flexible in teaching methods and techniques.

In short, music is a wonderful hobby and something all kids should be exposed to. But taking regular lessons in one requires dedication, patience, and lots and lots of work. Both on the instrument and off it. There should be respect and enthusiasm towards the teacher, and honesty from both sides if things aren’t quite working out. Your son’s teacher seems honest and caring, so that’s a good start.

rosesinmygarden · 02/12/2021 19:00

You sound like a nightmare parent. I can't believe you've expected the teacher to go without pay!

The teacher sounds very honest and incredibly supportive.

Let's hope YOU can support your son with the next instrument.

Violinist64 · 02/12/2021 19:02

@Georgie8, I am glad you have a musical family and all enjoy it but music is about far, far more than graded exams. Those children who you disdainfully say should give up their instruments because they never get further than around grade 3 obviously get something from them lessons. Music should be for everyone. For those of you who are saying that ten is too old to start learning certain instruments l say rubbish. It is never, ever too late. I teach people of all ages and abilities. At one end of the scale l occasionally have children who l think could make a career out of music and at the other l teach people with special needs who gain a great deal of satisfaction from playing simple pieces well. I teach adults too; many of whom have always wanted to play an instrument but never had the opportunity or who are picking up the instrument that they first learned in childhood and want to have another go at. Most people have no aspirations to a musical career but want a satisfying lifelong hobby. For my violin pupils this often means that they enjoy making music with others in amateur orchestras. Music is for everyone.

Coreblimy · 02/12/2021 19:05

The LRSM is a level 5, equivalent to the work required for the final year of a BSc. She will presumably already have the Level 4 or equivalent experience. Not that how she plays is necessarily the next indication of whether or not she's a good teacher, and she sounds like she is a good teacher to give you this feedback rather than just pocketing the money for months or years.

The violin is one of, if not the hardest, instrument to learn, definitely harder than the piano.

Violinist64 · 02/12/2021 19:06

Their lessons…. Predictive text!

TheyWentToSeaInASieve · 02/12/2021 19:06

The violin is much much harder to learn than the piano.

Viviennemary · 02/12/2021 19:08

She is telling you he isnt interested, doesn't want to do it and you are wasting your money.

fumfspos · 02/12/2021 19:09

We’ve decided the piano is not for him, so he is switching to violin which should be a bit easier to learn

Haha... good luck there....
The violin is very difficult at the start. Coordination and fine motor control is essential. You have to have an ear for music as you have to find the positions of the fingers on the strings yourself.
The piano is easier in the initial stages as it's "just" pressing keys. However, it does become difficult quickly once both hands are involved and many people struggle with reading two staves and the coordination of the two hands.

The teacher was honest with you. I think she should have phoned instead of texted but otherwise it's good to be honest and open.

I hope you did not push her too much into giving the money back for the missed lessons due to COVID. That was unfair of you if you did. Read the terms and conditions. I am a music teacher and I have strict terms and conditions - no money back for missed lessons ever. Replacement lessons offered at my discretion and if room on the timetable to allow it.
I can't simply say oh if you're ill etc you get your money back, people just lie. When I first started I did that but found out that kids who were supposedly ill were actually at birthday parties or the swimming pool.
I reserve my time for a pupil each week - they are paying for a time slot. If they do not turn up I can't sell that time to anyone else and would have lost money for every no-show for whatever spurious reason people have.
I simply cannot afford to let people off with refunds every single time they are off. And if you have a policy where they get money back the absence rate tends to be even higher.

Try your child on the violin if you really must but at least pay the woman even if he does have to miss lessons.

CoachBeardless · 02/12/2021 19:11

Violin is so much harder than piano!