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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset by piano teacher comments

413 replies

FlibberdyGibbett · 02/12/2021 15:14

My 10 year old son ‘Josh’ has been having piano lessons for six weeks and I have received this text from his teacher.

“Josh seems to be struggling in his lessons. He complains his fingers are tired even after we have just started the lesson. This morning he told me he has been doing too much writing in class beforehand. He seems to talk a lot and doesn’t seem particularly interested. He tells me he practises on his iPad?? I’m not sure the piano is right for Josh, maybe consider a different instrument next term.”

AIBU to feel upset and my son is being unsupported?

OP posts:
Rinoachicken · 02/12/2021 19:14

If he wasn’t interested enough to practice and build his finger strength for piano, I seriously doubt he will have the willpower and commitment to practice and build calluses on his fingers for playing a strong instrument.

I play the cello. Strings HURT when you first start. You get blisters and sore spots and then after a while your fo gets toughen up snd you’re fine. But there’s a period of pain you have to go through first! That’s on top of aches as you build muscle strength in your arms, shoulders hands and fingers.

Strong instruments are NOT easier to learn.

XelaM · 02/12/2021 19:14

Have you never heard the sound of a bafly played violin?! 🙉 omg don't do it

XelaM · 02/12/2021 19:14

badly played*

Rinoachicken · 02/12/2021 19:14

Excuse the typos - that would be my tough cello fingers!

HubbaBubbaIsMyFavourite · 02/12/2021 19:14

I have three kids, all play two instruments and get classes in those. Things I have learned over the past 6 years:

  • talk to your child; what is bothering them, why is the class not working out. And listen to them. All of my kids started with “classical instruments” mainly because I thought it was the “right thing to do”, but for some kids, it’s not. Now, we have a mix of classical and more “modern” instruments (electrical bass guitar etc)
  • teachers and personalities are really important; they can make or break a good tutoring relationship. Don’t be afraid to cancel and try someone else.
  • I always let them chose, whether to continue or not and they have tried several instruments over the years (we have given up on violin and cello), but they were always clear: once I paid for a period, they were going to do the classes and try their hardest. Gave them responsibility and consideration.

Talk to him; work it out together.

We now play: bass guitar, electric guitar, drums, piano and saxophone

Good luck!

Howshouldibehave · 02/12/2021 19:15

We’ve decided the piano is not for him, so he is switching to violin which should be a bit easier to learn

Riiiight Grin

SlavineRichter · 02/12/2021 19:18

@CMeredithC

I’m a professional musician OP, currently working with one of the top 5 orchestras in the world.

I’ve gone from being a 5 year old learning the recorder, through all the learning stages, music degree, performing, competing at international level, teaching kids and adults and everything in between. So this is all coming from my personal experience and professional opinion after years of learning, teaching and doing music.

To answer your most recent question, there is no such thing as a ‘qualified’ music teacher, unless you’re looking for a specific qualification yourself. A performance diploma sits right above Grade 8, and it’s (meant to be an) equivalent to the 1st year at conservatoire, so Level 4.

There are great and awful teachers with diplomas and degrees. There are great and awful teachers without them. There are people who just teach from what they can play, others have gone to conservatoire / done music at uni and are much more qualified on paper, which sometimes translates into practical teaching skills, and sometimes it doesn’t. They do normally have an incredibly higher standard of playing, and many will have taken pedagogy courses during their studies.

Now to the crux of the matter. Does your son know how to read music? Just basic stuff?

10 is not old to start learning an instrument. One of my best friends who is a principal player with the BBC Symphony Orchestra started at 12 and had graduated with honours from Juilliard 10 years later.

You can start music at any age, BUT you don’t teach a four year old the same way you teach a ten year old. The expectations and methods used will be different. At the age of 10 I would expect a student to very quickly learn some music theory because it will be very difficult to explain the technicalities of the instrument and pieces/exercises he’s trying to learn, if he doesn’t know the theory.

If your son can’t read music and hasn’t started doing theory, 90% of what the teacher says will sound like Japanese to him. Music is a foreign language. If I want to write poetry or read novels in Japanese, I first need to learn the characters and how to form words with them.

So it is not surprising that he isn’t very interested, it’s very possible he simply doesn’t understand what she’s asking of him. Of course, a good teacher would tell you this in advance, or would make sure s/he introduces theory concepts in the piano lesson itself. Regularly.

He needs a proper instrument to practise on. And he needs to practise it regularly. If he’s not keen on regular practice, that’s usually a clear sign that maybe formal music learning isn’t for him. This doesn’t mean ruling music out of his life by the way.

The violin is NOT easier than the piano. They are both complex instruments but an extra level of detail, precision and ‘natural ear’ is required for the violin. Because you need to learn how to actually make a note sound. On the piano you just press a key and there it is, perfectly in tune and everything.

Take the violin and bow to the teacher. Let her assess if they’re adequate or not. If she says they’re not good, trust her.

The amount of parents that used to send me links from this manufacturer in Tajikistan with cheap instruments, or photos of their grandma’s old instrument in the attic… If you want your child to learn an instrument, they need to practise on a proper one regularly. The instrument I play has a start value - for a beginner - of £10k. We couldn’t afford one for years so I would practise every lunchtime at school. When I got a bit older I’d also stay for another hour after school.

He might like the violin more than the piano, but if he still doesn’t know where an F# is on the stave, what 6/8 means or what the little numbers on top of the notes are, it will still sound like Japanese.

At 10 I would also expect focus and concentration, unless there are special needs. I had an 11 year old once who was more interested in chatting to me about her upcoming school trip than getting some playing done in the lesson. I gave her mother a similar message as the one you received (albeit in person). Don’t get me wrong, I chat to my students all the time about their schools and friends, but it’s 2-3 mins tops. A lesson is not for chatting.

I am personally not a fan of group lessons either, unless they’re very young. They don’t learn the same way, it goes much slower when there is another child there, because they will have different needs and abilities. Does she offer individual lessons? At least 30 mins a week is what I would recommend. Look into young musicians from a local music college if there is one nearby, as they’re often much more enthusiastic and flexible in teaching methods and techniques.

In short, music is a wonderful hobby and something all kids should be exposed to. But taking regular lessons in one requires dedication, patience, and lots and lots of work. Both on the instrument and off it. There should be respect and enthusiasm towards the teacher, and honesty from both sides if things aren’t quite working out. Your son’s teacher seems honest and caring, so that’s a good start.

This is a fantastic post by someone who really, really knows what she's talking about.
CaribouCarafe · 02/12/2021 19:21

I used to teach piano and violin whilst at uni. I had really good results and got most my students through referrals.

At one point I was oversubscribed and was teaching a kid who was completely unmotivated, didn't practice, was more interested in showing me that she could do handstands rather than play the piano.

When I nicely told her parents that in my final year I was decreasing my workload so that I could focus on my studies and just keeping on the students who were most passionate about piano they then turned rude and said BUT YOU'RE A TEACHER SO YOU SHOULD TEACH, REGARDLESS OF STUDENT. Then threatened to tell everyone they knew that I was a terrible teacher. I just laughed and walked away. It didn't affect my business.

Point is, for every unmotivated student there will be a motivated one who is an actual joy to teach and doesn't make you question what the hell you're doing with your life.

Maybe you should find out what your son is actually interested in doing rather than shoehorning him into the instruments that you feel are most convenient/easily available. Otherwise it really is an almighty waste of time, money and energy for all parties involved

Summerfun54321 · 02/12/2021 19:22

The guitar might be better for him. Don’t even go there with trying to get a reluctant 10 year old learn the violin! Could you encourage him to join a choir or percussion group as well or instead?

monkeysox · 02/12/2021 19:24

She's telling you not to waste your money

CaribouCarafe · 02/12/2021 19:25

Also just to add to the above. LRSM is the second grade of performance diploma (I.e. above grade 8 standard). It doesn't necessarily mean the teacher is not qualified, only means she hasn't sat the exam. That can be all sorts of factors including opportunity and price.

Also I'd like to add that being a good performer doesn't necessarily translate translate being a good teacher. Especially when it comes to beginners. To find out if she is well qualified to teach, the "proof" would be in her students and their achievements and feedback from their parents.

Case in point, I didn't go to music conservatoire and "only" have DipABRSM (first level) diploma but I have a 100% merit/distinction rate in my students up to grade 8 level and am still receiving referrals.

ChiefStockingStuffer · 02/12/2021 19:27

The violin is harder to learn and they sound dreadful when they're new to the instrument ... strongly suggest you be out of the house when he's practicing for a while. Grin

CMeredithC · 02/12/2021 19:29

BTW I correct myself as I mistakenly said LRSM is a Level 4 and equivalent of the Year 1 at conservatoire.

LRSM is a Level 5 and equivalent of a Year 2 of a BMus.

You’re judged on performing and stage and written presentation skills, so nothing to do with teaching.

dancinfeet · 02/12/2021 19:29

I have kids who do this in dance class- spend most of the lesson procrastinating, trying to avoid actually doing anything etc and complaining about trivial stuff. If he is not interested in learning the piano then the teacher is 100% right.

turnaroundtime · 02/12/2021 19:30

@FlibberdyGibbett

I’ve got an old violin he can use. I just phoned the teacher, she was really nice. She told me the violin is a bit harder though, but we’ll give it a go. She also said she would let me off the two lessons in December as a gesture of goodwill, so that’s very kind of her. She mentioned she was currently studying herself something called the LRSM performance Diploma - does this mean she’s not qualified? I thought I’d ask as a couple of music have posted and therefore might know what this means?
I rarely think or say this but OP, you sound like really hard work. First you criticise the teacher for being rude and harsh. Then you complain that she is charging you for sessions when your dc was unable to attend even though you accept that she wouldn't be able to fill them and would therefore lose income. After speaking with her you realise she is actually really nice and she even lets you off paying the 2 sessions but now you launch into questioning her ability to teach. I would rather not teach any of your dc tbh
SlavineRichter · 02/12/2021 19:31

One of mine started the piano at their request and did a couple of grades but basically didn't like it (didn't do much practice, which was a giveaway). They switched to a big, loud orchestral instrument, and loved it. However, we are a musical family generally, and most children at their school played more than one instrument to a high standard, so learning an instrument was the norm. That also helps. I think it's much harder if you don't play an instrument, read music etc yourself (do you, OP?), as you can't really have any idea of whether Josh is or isn't musically inclined or whether it's just a passing whim. The other thing I'd say is that with a younger child, you have to supervise practice actively, which is much harder if you don't really know what's going on. It's also time consuming, and you both have to be really dedicated. At the start, the majority of children left to practise on their own will just reinforce mistakes - they tend to play the pieces over and over again, but don't improve despite the amount of time spent. Real practice sometimes means playing the same few bars over and over again until they're right; practising the piece backwards; starting mid bar on the second page; practising only the scale passages or trills; and so on. My DC who's now a pianist outstripped me years ago, but for a long time, the fact that I was competent made a very big difference to their rate of progress.

DickMabutt73962 · 02/12/2021 19:31

Don't be like Josh's mum

SlavineRichter · 02/12/2021 19:33

@CaribouCarafe Also I'd like to add that being a good performer doesn't necessarily translate translate being a good teacher

Absolutely!

Arren12 · 02/12/2021 19:33

Sorry to hijack your thread op.

Can I ask teachers or anyone who might know. My dd has shown an interest in piano for most of her life. She is 8 now. She begged for a keyboard but we only got her a toy one. She messes about with it a few times a week. She has taught herself to read a couple of notes.
There was an electrical piano at a playgroup we recently attended. All the kids were making a din pressing the keys and dd went over and played a pretty decent tune out of nowhere. All the parents were a bit taken aback. I have no enquired about lessons. Not heard back from the company yet.

Thing is we don't have a piano. I had one in my home as a child but my mum gave it away. I'm willing to get one but reluctant before she has had actual lessons because she has form for giving things up. She has tried a few activities and has not enjoyed them as much as she expected. Usually after we have shelled out gor the equipment.

She has stuck at art which she is quite talented at and attends an art school.
She loves singing and has stuck at choir.
Il add she is autistic so won't always understand when I explain. She says it will be fun and she says she knows she will be good at it.
Also to add her writing is poor (although she has worked extremely hard to improve this to an ok level) will this mean she will struggle.
I'm totally non musical, I was forced to play the clarinet as a child and was crap at it. I can't read music. I don't want to waste our money we are not well off.

dropthevipers · 02/12/2021 19:35

@FlibberdyGibbett

Hi thank you for the replies! He was using my sisters piano to practise a couple of times a week until we got our own keyboard sorted.

With regards to the missed lessons he has ‘group tuition’ with another child so I don’t see how the teacher could fill that slot with anyone else I think she should carry them over, but I will pay because that’s the rules!

We’ve decided the piano is not for him, so he is switching to violin which should be a bit easier to learn.

Only problem is it’s the same teacher, she teaches both instruments so not sure how this will pan out! I may give her a call later to have a chat. I have her mobile number from the text message.

As a cello graduate of the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, (and for clarification you also needed to be able to play the piano to grade eight standard to get in, as well as being damn good on your main instrument) I can tell you learning a string instrument is way harder than piano (at least initially). What also rings alarm bells with your post is saying "We have decided....." Are you sure your little lad actually wants to learn an instrument at all, because it does not sound much like it.
CMeredithC · 02/12/2021 19:40

@Arren12 is renting a keyboard or piano an option? Could you enquire in some local shops to see if they offer this service? Or if she were to take lessons in school or the local music hub, do they have an instrument she could practise on?

She sounds quite able and she should absolutely give it a go. No reason why her writing should influence her musical skills, not in theory anyway.

For both the OP and everybody else, it is true that knowing a little bit of music yourself helps your kids progress on their respective instruments. But this really shouldn’t be a disadvantage for those children whose parents have no idea about music whatsoever. My family are totally non-musical (except for my mum’s odd church choir outing) and me and my siblings have all become, or are becoming, professional musicians.

The best thing you can do as a non-musical parent is support and encourage your child’s development. Read and learn about what they’re doing and how this whole music world works. Talk to them and ask them questions about their lessons and classes. Ask them to teach you a few things if they want. Praise them on how well they’re working, and inspire them to practise regularly by showing a good work ethic yourself, with things that you struggle or are unfamiliar with.

Winter2020 · 02/12/2021 19:45

Hi OP,
I have read your posts and updates and I see that your son has decided to try violin. I hope it goes well.

I just wanted to say if you have an ipad and can get hold of a keyboard then you could give your son the opportunity to try learning with "simply piano". You use it with a keyboard or piano but the ipad and app is the teaching aid. It starts you off right at the beginning (learning one/two notes) but there are backing tracks and pop songs throughout making it fun for kids to learn. My son was very self motivated to learn as the app is such fun

I'm not sure how much it costs now but I think there is a free trial. When my son used it a year subscription was £80 odd which I figured was only a few lessons cost. I think you can also subscribe monthly.

Simply Piano provided a great foundation for my son, he worked his way through it and when he started professional lessons he was pretty much ready to learn his grade 1 pieces. A couple of years on now and he is preparing his pieces to take his grade 8 in spring and playing "Moon River" as I type.

If your son has had a few lessons and no instrument at home I don't think he has had a fair chance. Starting out learning the piano doesn't have to be repeated practice of boring pieces and scales. Perhaps he could play around with teaching himself piano while learning the violin in his lessons. He could even go on to prove his teacher wrong.

Good luck

Daphnise · 02/12/2021 19:47

The piano is not for your son.

Not even if he had one to play....

Which from what you say he doesn't.

Georgie8 · 02/12/2021 19:48

@Violinist64

You’re absolutely right in what you say. Music should be pursued for enjoyment and grades aren’t necessary. My children didn’t “go through” the grades and only took them when they wanted to.

However, I didn’t “disdainfully” say people should give up if they couldn’t progress beyond grade 3, I was pointing out that usually children don’t progress because they’re not interested anymore, or don’t have the innate talent to take it further despite practising.

Why flog a dead horse -unless, of course you’re being paid to?

Violinist64 · 02/12/2021 19:50

@Arren12

Sorry to hijack your thread op.

Can I ask teachers or anyone who might know. My dd has shown an interest in piano for most of her life. She is 8 now. She begged for a keyboard but we only got her a toy one. She messes about with it a few times a week. She has taught herself to read a couple of notes.
There was an electrical piano at a playgroup we recently attended. All the kids were making a din pressing the keys and dd went over and played a pretty decent tune out of nowhere. All the parents were a bit taken aback. I have no enquired about lessons. Not heard back from the company yet.

Thing is we don't have a piano. I had one in my home as a child but my mum gave it away. I'm willing to get one but reluctant before she has had actual lessons because she has form for giving things up. She has tried a few activities and has not enjoyed them as much as she expected. Usually after we have shelled out gor the equipment.

She has stuck at art which she is quite talented at and attends an art school.
She loves singing and has stuck at choir.
Il add she is autistic so won't always understand when I explain. She says it will be fun and she says she knows she will be good at it.
Also to add her writing is poor (although she has worked extremely hard to improve this to an ok level) will this mean she will struggle.
I'm totally non musical, I was forced to play the clarinet as a child and was crap at it. I can't read music. I don't want to waste our money we are not well off.

As l said earlier, music can be for everyone. There are many free or low priced pianos around and piano lessons can be especially good for someone with special needs. I would make enquiries about piano teachers who are good with and understand special needs. Word of mouth is best but local music shops are very useful too. Progress might well be very slow but if your daughter enjoys it then that is all that matters. It will be her thing. If she is autistic, it’s a good idea to tell her that the rule is that she has to practice every day. Parental involvement is even more important in these circumstances. At present l teach an eighteen year old young man who is autistic and went to a special school. He is a joy. He has been learning for around five years and the pleasure he gets from playing simple Christmas carols, for example, is infectious. It has helped him in so many other areas of his life too.