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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

880 replies

Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:12

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do Sad

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

OP posts:
Roisin78 · 02/12/2021 19:32

[quote Offmyfence]@Roisin78 why does the dad still want to go?

For the benefit of his child, is that acceptable? [/quote]
No, there are other ways he can benefit his child without impacting on others.

Raffleyourdoughnut · 02/12/2021 19:34

Please let us know if you get a response.

lifeturnsonadime · 02/12/2021 19:36

Roisin I'm about a pro - women only spaces as you come but I can't see how it can be justified, on any basis, to refuse a dad who wants to bring his baby to this group.

How is this 'encroaching' on anyone's rights? Unless he is behaving inappropriately towards women who are breastfeeding which hasn't been alleged then given that breastfeeding in public is to be encouraged it seems backwards to ban a father from a group because women would rather he was not there.

It would be entirely different if this was a breastfeeding support group, but it isn't.

Offmyfence · 02/12/2021 19:44

How can he @Roisin78 ?

Why should he be excluded?

What's next, he can't take his child to swimming lessons, because the children are changing in mixed changing rooms?

He can't go to cafes in the morning, because the breastfeeding mummies use it?

What is he allowed to do?

madroid · 02/12/2021 19:44

Good post @lifeturnsonadime

"a penis in the room" - good heavens, what have we come to? Poor dad to meet with such a response!

Marianne1234 · 02/12/2021 19:45

Roisin you can’t just retrospectively declare a group a “women only” group, for absolutely no good reason other than you don’t fancy having a man there. That’s not how it works.

Lifewith · 02/12/2021 19:49

Awful attitude Roisin.
Absolutely shocking. A dad is just as much a parent too.

They still need to move babychanging for dad's to access as well, too many are still in women's toilets

Lifewith · 02/12/2021 19:51

The whole thing has got ridiculous
A baby music group is not a single sex space. And why do people keep sexualising breast feeding, it's weird.

gogohm · 02/12/2021 19:53

Unless it's a breastfeeding group it's blatant discrimination. I would be very tempted to point out that it's discriminatory and illegal and say you will sending the letter to your local newspaper and mp l. She actually needs shutting down if that's her attitude. The mums and babies group is also discriminating - we have two sahds at our parents and little ones group!

CommonRoom · 02/12/2021 19:56

chinny reckon

gogohm · 02/12/2021 19:57

Btw I breastfed each of mine for 18 months and fed them on demand, men really aren't an issue!

Lifewith · 02/12/2021 19:57

I used to be a peer supporter at a breastfeeding group and dads were welcome (not that there were many). They were there only to support their partner, its not all breastfeeding groups.

Milkshake54 · 02/12/2021 19:59

I'm also pissed off that other mums reacts like this. If you done feel comfortable breastfeeding in front of a 'penis' take a cover.
Would you expect all men to leave coffee shops just because you are feeding?

from a BF'ing mum of a 12month old, who would be sticking up for your husband at baby music*

Tilltheend99 · 02/12/2021 20:00

@jamie85 I have large breast. I bought all the modesty crap and it was impossible impractical to use. I have just as much right to feed my baby when they are hungry as a person whose breast fit into the category of ‘modest.’

Many of those modest women you see might also just be terrified of being leached at by guys like you.

The op and her husband are perfectly reasonable but you have somehow managed to make this whole bonkers scenario seem a little more reasonable as I doubt any woman would enjoy having you around while bfing.

EdgeOfTheSky · 02/12/2021 20:01

If he takes himself into the women’s changing rooms at the swimming group, that will be a different matter.

Women only changing rooms are protected. (Watch this space…).

A parent and baby music group is not.

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 02/12/2021 20:09

When DS was little (5 months or so) we went to a messy play group where at the end they brought out little tubs of warm water for the parents to wash off the bulk of the mess. Often it was things like spaghetti hoops or custard they were playing in so most of us stripped the babies and wiped them down with clean flannels before changing nappy and redressing etc. One time I couldn't go so DH took DH and one mother told him he was disgusting being around naked babies.

I mean. Come on.

Mousetown · 02/12/2021 20:10

No, there are other ways he can benefit his child without impacting on others

Maybe the “breastfeeding mummies” should leave if they feel uncomfortable with male parents being at a Parent and Child class? After all, like you said - there are other ways they can benefit their child without it impacting on others.

Yahyahs22 · 02/12/2021 20:14

Yeah, why don't the vaginas leave and get a full refund if they're so uncomfortable? Absolutely disgusting. I would be very upset if that was about my partner and wouldn't even need to ask if I was being unreasonable in sending a very angry email back

DontBeCatty · 02/12/2021 20:15

Is this in the Daily Mail yet or is it too bizarre even for them.

Lifewith · 02/12/2021 20:15

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

When DS was little (5 months or so) we went to a messy play group where at the end they brought out little tubs of warm water for the parents to wash off the bulk of the mess. Often it was things like spaghetti hoops or custard they were playing in so most of us stripped the babies and wiped them down with clean flannels before changing nappy and redressing etc. One time I couldn't go so DH took DH and one mother told him he was disgusting being around naked babies.

I mean. Come on.

Shock
Offmyfence · 02/12/2021 20:18

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

When DS was little (5 months or so) we went to a messy play group where at the end they brought out little tubs of warm water for the parents to wash off the bulk of the mess. Often it was things like spaghetti hoops or custard they were playing in so most of us stripped the babies and wiped them down with clean flannels before changing nappy and redressing etc. One time I couldn't go so DH took DH and one mother told him he was disgusting being around naked babies.

I mean. Come on.

I have an idea from this thread, that this person is a member of MN.
Ginger1982 · 02/12/2021 20:21

@Roisin78

No, but you did seem to suggest that women should be allowed to unilaterally declare a space as women only and exclude others who attend regularly on that basis.

Business owners are allowed to do just that under the equality act, there are single sex exemptions for just this reason. I understand your DH is upset but at the end of the day if a group of women want a female only group then they're allowed to do that. Why does your husband still want to go and why are you both pushing for this despite knowing his presence is making women feel uncomfortable 🙄
The owner tried to have a parents group and it didn't work so she changed the policy, many women don't want mixed sex groups. There's nothing to stop dads setting up their own.

You are utterly ridiculous.
SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 02/12/2021 20:22

Yeah she wasn't pleasant at the best of times but that comment made us just stop going.

User5252727 · 02/12/2021 20:25

No, there are other ways he can benefit his child without impacting on others.

Similarly there are ways breastfeeding mothers can benefit their children without impacting on others by forcing them to leave baby groups they're perfectly entitled to attend. Why should it be the dad who has to leave a baby music group rather than the breastfeeding mother who actually has the problem?

Lifewith · 02/12/2021 20:27

I am for single sex spaces, very much so, as I'm sure many posters are on here. They are def needed and that is another discussion
But this is a time when it's got confused and a baby music group is not one of those spaces.
We have to include dads more, parents, carers etc not all babies will have their primary carer that is their mum

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