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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

880 replies

Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:12

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do Sad

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

OP posts:
Heatherjayne1972 · 02/12/2021 06:33

Um rude yes
If it’s advertised as parent and child - as it should be I feel ( unless it’s a female safe space ) then surely it’s not outrageous to see a dad there and discriminatory to bar him
Besides surely these women breastfeed infront of men in other areas of life ?
As for ‘the only penis in the room’ comment - are all the babies female

I’m annoyed for you op

Oldtiredfedup · 02/12/2021 06:33

I’m a staunch sex-based rights and spaces supporter, but this is madness and discriminatory. Babies are not the sole domain of women and this is not a birth support or breastfeeding support groups.

As for referring to his genitals - this is where ‘gender’ has got us: I’d put my last pound on thd group being perfectly happy to accept men who sag they are women.

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 02/12/2021 06:36

My DH has taken DD2 to a few baby groups/classes when I first went back to work and he took some more paternity leave. He was made to feel very welcome at all of them.

How awful for your husband!

Driposaurus · 02/12/2021 06:40

I hope your DH is ok.

My husband took SPL (or it’s short lived predecessor) with all my children from around them being 7 months old. Naturally he didn’t ever go to the bfing group (that had seen many many tears from me as I struggled to get feeding) but he went swimming, baby sensory, music bugs. First time round he was the only Dad but the most recent occasion he met other Dads doing the same thing. Yay for progress…

saleorbouy · 02/12/2021 06:49

As a male this is offensive on so many levels, firstly the way he is referred to as a sexual organ rather than as the child's father.
The fact that he is being discriminated against because of his gender.
The insinuation that he is at the group to purely to watch mothers feeding is absurd.

I attended many baby classes with both my DC and never got the feeling of being unwanted. In fact my presence actually encouraged other mother's to being their DP along and often thee were 2-3 males in the group.

You should reply to the vagina and make it clear that her business model needs to be inclusive and her communication style a little more sensitive.
I'm sure the offended mother's are quite happy to fed in a cafe or other public place.

WTF475878237NC · 02/12/2021 06:56

Besides surely these women breastfeed infront of men in other areas of life ?

^ not necessarily. I couldn't feed in public due to my religious beliefs about exposing my body in front of men.

Slayduggee · 02/12/2021 07:02

If it the one I’m thinking of it’s a 30 minute not three hours baby music class!

I firmly believe in single sex spaces where needed e.g. breastfeeding group, post natal recovery group, etc. However, this is a baby music group. Your DS is too young to go by himself so he needs to bring a parent with him! I wonder what would happen if a baby with two dads wanted to attend. Would they be barred as well?

I understand that women do feel self conscious breastfeeding outside the home as I have bf two myself. However, there are men everywhere outside there home. Do they never go to a cafe or a shop?

Heatherjayne1972 · 02/12/2021 07:02

@WTF475878237NC
Really? But babies feeding in all sorts of places and times! I get the modesty thing but there are all sorts of ‘cover ups ‘ available
A number of bf mums I knew used those - You’d not really know baby was feeding at all
( not being goady btw - I’m just surprised )!

Offmyfence · 02/12/2021 07:06

@WTF475878237NC

Besides surely these women breastfeed infront of men in other areas of life ?

^ not necessarily. I couldn't feed in public due to my religious beliefs about exposing my body in front of men.

So your religion is at fault? You can't expect other people to live by your religion. If they don't practise that religion.
Platax · 02/12/2021 07:11

Ask them why they think it's OK to discriminate against your son for having his Dad looking after him. And whether they would treat, say, the children of a widowed father the same way.

skodadoda · 02/12/2021 07:12

@Scottishskifun

It's completely out of order! Uncomfortable breast feeding I mean what do they do when at a cafe or out and about?! Ridiculous and yes I bf my DS til nearly 2.

DH used to take our son to groups he was never excluded.
Personally I would ask her why she thinks it's appropriate to refer to your husband in that way and also ask her where it states mother's only to group? That your disappointed that she excludes fathers and is discriminating in this way.

No doubt these same women will be screaming if anyone complains about them breastfeeding in a public place. As for the penis remark, that’s just beyond bonkers.
SeasonFinale · 02/12/2021 07:13

At a time when we seek to normalise breastfeeding in the mainstream we have a group such as this suggesting it needs to be hidden away for women's eyes only.

SonicStars · 02/12/2021 07:13

It is a baby music class. She is being descrimitory as well as hurtful. You should take legal action. Not just because of what she said to your family but because she will do it again to other men and the child and community will lose out.

He is not preventing anyone from breastfeeding in a public music lesson. Why should he be penalised?

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 02/12/2021 07:21

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney

Why did your husband have his penis out in the music class ? Or was it that he wasn’t really keeping time with it properly. Couldn’t they let him just have a drum stick next time ?

What idiots !!!!

Maybe he was using it as a metromnome?
EveningOverRooftops · 02/12/2021 07:22

If point out in your email that

The only way more men are going to take their rightful parental leave is if groups like this allow all dads in and she’s reinforcing sex stereotypes by barring dads from going to parent groups and the knock on effect of that is fewer dads will want to do the SAHP thing because it really is boring as fuck without the kid classes to go to.

To appease the breastfeeding mothers who don’t want to feed in front of a man you simply create a private space for them to breastfeed as well as allowing them to feed in the public space at the class. You give them options.

Parents have to understand that the world cannot revolve around them and their choices and they have to accept that some groups for babies will have dads attend and other groups of course must be women only.

NotMyselfWithoutCoffee · 02/12/2021 07:26

You need to escalate this, as a business it is clear sex discrimination.

rrhuth · 02/12/2021 07:30

Ooof, that is terrible.

You absolutely should raise it with the franchising organisation and if the organisation/business is for women only they need to say that on their literature.

Theflamingnerd · 02/12/2021 07:32

Are we 100% sure his fly wasn't wide open and he was accidentally flashing everyone?

Fredstheteds · 02/12/2021 07:34

Disgusting- it’s sexual discrimination

Sundaymorningfiveninteen · 02/12/2021 07:37

Your DH should attend again and actually get his penis out so it’s in the room. Then the e mail would be justified.Grin

Lovemusic33 · 02/12/2021 07:43

Do you have a local newspaper? If so I would be writing something to go in the local paper highlighting how sexist the local parent and baby group is. I’m in a rural area and we have groups where all parents and grandparents are welcome, we also have a dads group as there are many stay at home dads here and dads raising children alone. No one should ever be told they are not welcome.

SofaKingKnotBovvered · 02/12/2021 07:47

@WTF475878237NC

Besides surely these women breastfeed infront of men in other areas of life ?

^ not necessarily. I couldn't feed in public due to my religious beliefs about exposing my body in front of men.

Then you would move to somewhere more acceptable for you surely? Your religious beliefs shouldn't impact on others It's a parent and child group and should be inclusive of either parent or carer
PinkMochi · 02/12/2021 07:48

discomfort at having a penis in the group environment

So all the babies were girls then? Because boy babies have penises! Weird she used the word “penis” rather than man. Is this to refer to biological men and trans women? If women are that uncomfortable breast feeding in public then maybe do it discreetly or move to the other side of the room?

Send an email: “This is a parent and baby group, not mum and baby, so it was not clear that fathers are not welcome. I also find it highly offensive to refer to someone by their genitals. Fathers are men, not “penises.”

Leave a public review online: “dads are not welcome to join this PARENT and baby music group.”

DobbyTheHouseElk · 02/12/2021 07:49

I’m actually speechless

cookiemonster2468 · 02/12/2021 07:58

That's ridiculous and discriminatory.

Did the message come from the group leader or one of the mums?

If from the group leader, I would put in a complaint.

If one of the mums, ignore.