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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

880 replies

Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:12

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do Sad

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

OP posts:
Mammyloveswine · 01/12/2021 23:12

No this is not on..

"A penis in the group?" I assume your DH wasn't waving his around like a windmill..

How ridiculous!

Fair enough at a breastfeeding support group but a baby music group?? Nah!

ddl1 · 01/12/2021 23:14

How rude and narrow-minded. Dads are parents too!

ThorsMistress · 01/12/2021 23:15

@PAFMO

Unless he's getting it out and waggling it in time to the music, then I think you're all well off away from the group tbf. But I'd definitely complain. Probably to the Mail tbh.
This has floored me 😭😂

I would be angry her calling him ‘a penis’ let alone excluding him from a group because of his gender!

nanbread · 01/12/2021 23:17

@Bingbangbongbash

I’m extremely pro-breastfeeding but if you are uncomfortable doing it in front of a man, then go elsewhere. This is completely discriminatory and I would be kicking up a fuss about it. Dads should be made welcome at any of these groups - it’s a feminist issue. How will we ever reach parity if men are not allowed to engage in the full remit of childcare?
This x 100

I'm so angry for you and your DH

CCSA · 01/12/2021 23:20

What do the breastfeeding mums do if they happen to have boys… Christ just think of the penis in the room then!

gofg · 01/12/2021 23:20

I would ignore her calling him a 'penis', and just overlook that in the understanding of the current temperate climate.

I disagree - it's outrageous in my opinion. Would you like to be referred to by your genitals?

I would give my views to the organiser OP, and yes I think the very least they can do is apologise to your DP. If the complaining "mummies" are so sensitive maybe they should move to another group.

WomanStillNotAFeeling · 01/12/2021 23:22

I think its wrong..

But also hilarious as women have been expected to just put up with being called bodies with a vagina, menstruators, uterus havers, cervix havers and I’ve seen so many men not get why we’ve been pissed off

GreenGlowLightly · 01/12/2021 23:23

If I’d gone to a group , where we are breast feeding, I wouldn’t be happy with a man there at all.
If I went to a group where it was mixed and men were expected, I might not go, if it clashed with feeding, or I would go , and not feed at the same time, most likely.

If its always been only women who attended, and suddenly a man attended to, and I was breastfeeding, I wouldn’t be happy.

But if I wasn’t breastfeeding, it had always been women in attendance, and I WASNT, breastfeeding, I wouldn’t care at all.

Human nature I guess.

I think the breastfeeding mums have a point, as do you.

This poor lady wants to make a living. I feel for her dilemma really

If you insist your husband attends, expect it to be the two of them,and then neither, when it closes.

This is the reality

Mousetown · 01/12/2021 23:24

My husband is a SAHD and it would break my heart if something like this happened to him. He doesn’t go to classes because he worries about stuff like this.
Complain to the franchise head office, the venue and local authority. It’s discrimination. I wouldn’t even give her a chance to correct it. The damage is done and I wouldn’t want to hand over a single penny to someone like her.
The phrase “breastfeeding mummies” tells you what kind of muppet you are dealing with here. I can picture her now.

ClaudiaJ1 · 01/12/2021 23:24

@gofg

I would ignore her calling him a 'penis', and just overlook that in the understanding of the current temperate climate.

I disagree - it's outrageous in my opinion. Would you like to be referred to by your genitals?

I would give my views to the organiser OP, and yes I think the very least they can do is apologise to your DP. If the complaining "mummies" are so sensitive maybe they should move to another group.

Would you like to be referred to by your genitals?

That's the point, @gofg . Women ALREADY ARE! And have been for a few years now. The first time a man is, the world falls off it's axis.

YerWanIsGettinNotions · 01/12/2021 23:27

I think I'd send an initial one line response to get her to realise the extreme offensiveness of what she has written and just how badly she comes across. Like "Oh my God, Sharon, did you seriously just call my husband "a penis"? why on earth would you say something so crude and offensive- is this some kind of sick joke?"

You need to make her immediately aware just how awful this language is, while you consider what your longer term response will be.

Also, contact the most gossipy member of the group that you're on good terms with to express your shock at the crude language used about your DH and offensive shunning of your (also male) infant. They'll do rest of the legwork for you.

SimpsonsXmasBoogie · 01/12/2021 23:30

I'd take screenshots and put them on social media

Eleganz · 01/12/2021 23:32

@GreenGlowLightly

If I’d gone to a group , where we are breast feeding, I wouldn’t be happy with a man there at all. If I went to a group where it was mixed and men were expected, I might not go, if it clashed with feeding, or I would go , and not feed at the same time, most likely.

If its always been only women who attended, and suddenly a man attended to, and I was breastfeeding, I wouldn’t be happy.

But if I wasn’t breastfeeding, it had always been women in attendance, and I WASNT, breastfeeding, I wouldn’t care at all.

Human nature I guess.

I think the breastfeeding mums have a point, as do you.

This poor lady wants to make a living. I feel for her dilemma really

If you insist your husband attends, expect it to be the two of them,and then neither, when it closes.

This is the reality

Sorry, but you are part of the problem here. How are we expected to get men to actually step up and be involved fathers to babies if women won't accept their presence in parent and baby groups because they happen to be new to them and the only man?
Frazzled50yrold · 01/12/2021 23:33

She's discriminating and you need to point it out to her before someone else takes a case against her.
Presumably you've some sort of contract with her and I'd check it with a view to continuing the class.

grapewine · 01/12/2021 23:34

Complain to the franchise head office, the venue and local authority. It’s discrimination. I wouldn’t even give her a chance to correct it. The damage is done and I wouldn’t want to hand over a single penny to someone like her. Agree with this.

Cordyceps · 01/12/2021 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Yummypumpkin · 01/12/2021 23:36

Unless your husband actually took his penis out, so it was visibly in the room, in which case I think her message is very tactful actually, then you are not being unreasonable at all!!!!!!!

Cordyceps · 01/12/2021 23:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

ClaudiaJ1 · 01/12/2021 23:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

Mamanyt · 01/12/2021 23:42

I do have to wonder what any one of those mums might have said if they attended a "partents and child" group and were told that some of the fathers were uncomfortable with having a vagina in the group...

Mousetown · 01/12/2021 23:44

@GreenGlowLightly

If I’d gone to a group , where we are breast feeding, I wouldn’t be happy with a man there at all. If I went to a group where it was mixed and men were expected, I might not go, if it clashed with feeding, or I would go , and not feed at the same time, most likely.

If its always been only women who attended, and suddenly a man attended to, and I was breastfeeding, I wouldn’t be happy.

But if I wasn’t breastfeeding, it had always been women in attendance, and I WASNT, breastfeeding, I wouldn’t care at all.

Human nature I guess.

I think the breastfeeding mums have a point, as do you.

This poor lady wants to make a living. I feel for her dilemma really

If you insist your husband attends, expect it to be the two of them,and then neither, when it closes.

This is the reality

If this “poor lady” wants to run a business then she needs to learn how to do so without being discriminatory. It’s not that difficult. There is no dilemma.
Geppili · 01/12/2021 23:45

"Having a penis in a group environment" Comedy gold

Geppili · 01/12/2021 23:46

@Yummypumpkin 🤣

Mapletreelane · 01/12/2021 23:48

@appleturnovers

hi there. Just keen to understand why this is not against the equality act and does not count as discrimination.

The group was not advertised to OP as a female only group.
It is Harassment to single out a person due to their sex in an email in a way that makes the person feel uncomfortable. Sex is one of the 9 protected characteristics of the equality act, regardless of whether the group was a female .

I'm struggling to understand how this is not classed as harassment. At the very least it is bullying..

CantKeepSecrets · 01/12/2021 23:48

As someone who owns and runs a baby/toddler class business I am genuinely jaw on the floor shocked at this Shock there is absolutely no excuse for her behaviour and I'd definitely suggest she apologise to your DH. Unless this is a breastfeeding support group I can't think of any valid reason a Dad would be made to feel like this Sad