To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

[Lividlavidacoco]

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

@Lividlavidacoco

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

Are you sure op? She actually used the phrase 'a penis in the room?'

For goodness sake... I ran playgroups for years and dads were always welcome. Just awful behaviour from this group and the leader. I would be making noise locally about the ridiculousness of this.

“Could you please tell the room full of boobs to get over themselves?”

@dexterslockedintheshedagain

I'd be furious! Your DH might be the only 'penis' in the group, but there seems to be more than one dick....

But he is not! I assume there are male babies in the group!!. OP should just push back on tbhs one. Its discriminatory.

I'd be spitting blood OP. What a horrible way to refer to anybody.

Act ignorant(ish) How about

Dear penis-hater

I'm a little confused - my son does have a penis but I'm not quite sure why you're objecting to him attending a parent and baby group since he is indeed a baby attending with a parent. I'm sorry if someone saw it while he was having his nappy changed and felt offended but really as you know babies can be a bit wriggly. Have you asked all the other baby boys to leave as well or are you discriminating against my son and his parent for a particular reason?

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Equality Act. because you are certainly in breach of it This is direct discrimination which means treating one person worse than another person because of a protected characteristic. Sex is a protected characteristic.

I await the apology I am sure will be forthcoming once you've had a chance to reconsider your error.

Kind regards

LIvid

Wow this is awful. We should be encouraging more dad's and carers into these spaces! Childcare isn't just a female responsibility - how can we possibly increase shared parenting.

The whole tone of the email is really weird.

Also a penis in the room makes it sound like his penis was exposed!!

That's absolutely disgusting and I'm raging on your behalf! I can't believe the rudeness of the email referring to him as a penis for a start. My best friend is currently breastfeeding and she just drapes a muslin over so that nobody can see anything. She's quite happy feeding like that with my DH and DC in the room.

This is shocking OP!
Which century does this lady live in?! I'd be fuming as well and would probably make sure all my mum friends knew. It's 100% discrimination and I d never come across any issue with 'penis' (wtf?) being present at any of the groups I've been to. I always think it's great to see the dads there getting involved, just like they should as fathers!

Is he seriously the Fist and only dad that's ever gone to thsi group?
My DH was tasking my now 18 yea rold to baby groups and luckily didn't get this way back in 2003.

Argh I just accidentally clicked on the yabu vote (breastfeeding toddler kicked phone).

I can’t get over that they referred to your DH as a penis in the room! I’m all for women’s safe spaces, but a music class is not one of them. This is so wrong, I’m sorry your DH has been treated like that.

@NatriumChloride

What the ACTUAL fuck?? Are you being serious? They referred to your husband as “a penis?” Was that some sort of drunk typo??

I’d escalate this all the way to the top. This is totally discriminatory- this is NOT a mums group/class! I’m shocked OP!

Can’t see how it would be a drunk typo. Not unless his name is Denis.

Unbelievable what a thing to write!

• I would finitely report her to the franchisee group she's an absolute idiot
• I would question why all the mums are paying to go to a music group to sit there and feed? Surely you'd time it around that? I know I would have.
• maybe DH should find some dads (or mums) online and start his own group - I'm sure he could invent something much more fun - baby wearing darts anyone?

This is direct sexual discrimination and is illegal. In your position I would write to her factually to confirm that she is cancelling your place and refunding your money solely because you husband is attending.

When she responds I would suggest a follow up to say it is direct discrimination, is illegal and you will be taking legal advice on the matter.

Go to CAB website as there is a useful article. See if you home insurance has legal cover as an option or see if you can contact a specialist law firm. Alternatively if he is part of a union they may provide legal cover.

Whilst I totally appreciate the need for safe women’s spaces, she is providing a service and cannot discriminate in this way

@irregularegular WTF is that supposed to mean?

It means exactly what it says. I am assuming that he behaved appropriately, as that is my default assumption of everyone.

It is however perfectly possible that he did say or do something that made someone feel uncomfortable and that is why they would prefer him not to be there anymore. They'd just rather not say so, so are blaming his gender instead.

It just seems so bizarre than women should object to having a man there that I was grappling for alternatives!

And yes, if a woman was excluded for some equally nonsensical reason I would also wonder if she'd behaved inappropriately but no-one liked to say so.

That's disgusting! Referring to anyone by their genitals is... well, disgusting!

I understand not wanting to breastfeed in the room with a man, but surely they could partition off a corner with curtains to offer privacy, if there's not a second room available. That was the answer here, not embarrassing and excluding a father from a parent-and-baby activity.

@CliffsofMohair

Can’t see how it would be a drunk typo. Not unless his name is Denis.

When I first read this I thought they were referring to your son and were clutching at pearls over a a bit of nappy free time. To see it is about your DH is unbelievable. They do realise some children have penises, right (or ‘are a penis’ in the spirit of the email)?

@Lividlavidacoco

Thanks all. I’m going to give the group leader the opportunity to correct her position on this and ask that she apologises to DH before I do anything else. As tempting as it is to name and shame and burn the crops and salt the earth.. this is a small town and I don’t really fancy the hassle when she’s a really well thought of member of the community (ex health visitor). She’s actually probably on mumsnet herself so no doubt she’ll see this and hopefully all your outrage will help her see the light. I’ve NC’d so I’m fine with that.

I’m going to have to tell DH tonight - I’ll need to find a way to be gentle about it and I’m not sure how to do that yet. He’s going to feel like he’s done something wrong

The problem is OP that the bridge is now burnt. Your DH will not want to go back.

Any remedy has to be more than a simple apology. It has to be more substantial than that. Please make sure that you email the head office of the franchise. This woman needs to either receive some decent training on the equality act or lose her franchise. To be honest I would say the latter, she has broken the law and discriminated against your DH under a protected characteristic and actually done it in writing! How utterly stupid of her!

I would say that I would expect better from a trained health visitor, but I've seen how both my ex and my DP have been treated by midwives and health visitors in the past and so I'm not really that surprised she would think it would be okay to just blatantly discriminate against a father like that.

My step dad is a high functioning alcholic.

He will have an Irish coffee most nights but can leave the drink for a bit then binge for a weekend. He's not violent when drinking but can't stir the pot when he drinks but the concern is my mum keeps asking to have my five month old for a night.

One I am breast feeding and not ready.

Two my step dad won't drink during the day but when 6 o'clock comes he gets bored and has a few. I'm not concern when they have my son for a few hours. Step dad is sober when he drives but concerned at night.

My step dad won't be black out drunk but he probably will sneek in a irish coffee my mum will be sober but it does concern me.

@BashfulClam

Wow, they weren’t shy of a penis around a year ago!

LOL

Omg! I am actually furious for you! How dare someone send an email like that?! I would definitely report for discrimination and forward the email on to as many people as possible! In the long term unfortunately your husband may want to attend baby classes further away as even if she was forced to say it’s ok, I doubt he’d want to go now anyway.

@Lividlavidacoco this is disgusting.
Firstly why on earth she couldn't have just put "male in the group" rather than refer to him as "penis" is beyond me? This is really offensive, inappropriate and unprofessional!!!
Secondly she says she wants her group to be a "safe environment" so what is she suggesting about him!?

Totally WRONG and I would be fucking fuming.

I wouldn't even give her the time of day to correct it OP. Just go right to head office and screen shot her email to send to them.

Shame, because your poor DS is the one missing out now. My DS is also 8 months and I take him to Baby Sensory which he loves and if this happened to me and my son wasn't allowed back because my DH took him (and then he referred to as a fucking penis in the room) I'd hit the roof. Not fair on your little boy to miss out at all. This is discrimination!

Please take this further without a doubt. Disgusting

However you reply can you get a phrase in that refers to both your vagina and hers

“As a fellow vagina owner and supporter of vaginas having safe spaces, I do not agree that music groups are only for vaginas, and are not advertised as such”