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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be absolutely LIVID about this email?

880 replies

Lividlavidacoco · 01/12/2021 20:12

‘Hi Livid,

I hope you’re well and your return to work went smoothly? Just to let you know, a few of the mums messaged me after Monday’s session to express discomfort at having a penis in the group environment. They expressed they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding with him in the room and we want the group to always be a safe and inclusive space for breastfeeding mummies. I am a small business so think it’s best that he doesn’t attend again. Sorry for the inconvenience, I’ll refund any sessions you have pre-paid.’

WTAFFFFFF.

Context: I returned to work 2 weeks ago, DH is now a full time stay at home dad to our 8 month old son and he’s loving it. He’s a brilliant father and this will be the set up until DS starts school.

I attended a baby music group with DS since he was 2 months old and he really enjoys it (as much as a little baby enjoys anything!) with other mums. No where in the literature of the group does it refer to mums, everything is ‘baby and parent’ so I assumed him attending the group instead of me would be fine. I told the group leader 3 weeks ago that DH would be bringing DS from now on and she was totally fine about it.

There are only 3 groups for babies in our small town and I attended all of them: a breastfeeding group, a ‘mums and babies’ coffee morning and then the baby music group. Obviously DH can’t attend breastfeeding or the coffee morning so this was the only one he could do Sad

WIBU to fire back an email asking firstly why she feels the need to refer to my husband by his genitals and secondly, where in the group descriptions anywhere Eddie’s it says it’s a mums only group??

AIBU here???

OP posts:
WTF475878237NC · 01/12/2021 21:54

Tell her your DH actually identifies as a chest feeding mother and that he feels violated by her misgendering transphobia.

^ That's why the email refers to biological sex not gender identity.

Newmumatlast · 01/12/2021 21:54

I would be raging. I would demand an apology. Appreciate she is a small business but would she accept other forms of discrimination of an equality act protected characteristics just because she didn't want to lose business? If someone said they were uncomfortable with an amputee there? Or an Asian person? Discrimination isn't ok regardless of whether or not business would be lost. And I doubt no others would attend group. Yes a small town but as you say only certain number of options for groups. And I doubt all everyone is as ridiculous as the one or two complaining

Bumpsadaisie · 01/12/2021 21:55

Your poor DH. I hope he doesn't get put off. Bloody breastfeeding mummies need to mum up.

How on Earth do we expect better sharing of the parental load if a dad bringing his own baby along is treated like this.

Backtomyoldname · 01/12/2021 21:55

@Lividlavidacoco

I’ve just discovered there’s a baby swimming group not too far away - I think I’ll suggest DH takes DS to that. You’re right and he’s not going to want to go back to this group which is such a massive shame.
Don’t let him wear budgie smugglers or it’ll all start up again!

Please let us know what happens re apologies, whatsapp etc.
Thanks

ClaudiaJ1 · 01/12/2021 21:55

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead

Tell her your DH actually identifies as a chest feeding mother and that he feels violated by her misgendering transphobia.

Then watch how quickly she backpeddles.

Again I thought this was a breastfeeding support group to start with. It's outrageous and so sexist.

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead You miss the point. The email sender clearly is using such language BECAUSE of the way trans women are pushing women out of female spaces. No way will she backpeddle, she did this BECAUSE of trans issues. That is the whole point!
Theflamingnerd · 01/12/2021 21:55

I can only assume they meant to type penis haver/owner and made a typo. If this is the case, given that women are constantly referred to as menstruators, cervix havers, birthing parents and chestfeeders then I can see why it was used. If you wouldn't get in a tizzy about women being referred to in these terms then I'd be inclined to question your double standards.

If they genuinely meant to type penis, rather than penis owner then that's horrific.

Breastfeeding groups absolutely should be a single sex facility (with the babies being exempt of course). Anything marketed as mother and baby likewise should be single sex. But there's no reason a father can't attend a parent and toddle group, given that's he's a parent.

chaosrabbitland · 01/12/2021 21:55

@HorsdoeuvresInTheGarage

I hope all those outraged by the penis reference, are equally outraged by women being reduced to body parts or functions, which happens a lot these days. Somehow I doubt it. It's basically what JKR was pilloried for pointing out.
i think referring to people by their bits and bobs is wrong regardless of the sex , theres no need for it at all i agree
YouokHun · 01/12/2021 21:55

I’d be tweeting that. It’s not OK to refer to anyone like that. We need to welcome fathers to parenting groups. I also think women need to be less squeamish about breastfeeding in a parenting group with a male presence. They have a perfect right to feed their babies and shouldn’t feel uncomfortable. I know it’s a tricky one in the early days but there are far more hostile places to breastfeed and the father of a young child himself is unlikely to be there for reasons any different from theirs. She’s made a pretty serious error with that message.

MushMonster · 01/12/2021 21:56

@HorsdoeuvresInTheGarage

I hope all those outraged by the penis reference, are equally outraged by women being reduced to body parts or functions, which happens a lot these days. Somehow I doubt it. It's basically what JKR was pilloried for pointing out.
Equally outraged here. It is exactly the same disrespectful twisted set of words.
Sofiegiraffe · 01/12/2021 21:57

How on Earth do we expect better sharing of the parental load if a dad bringing his own baby along is treated like this.

Exactly

CheddarGorgeous · 01/12/2021 21:58

I'd be very careful OP (and other posters) this thread has all the potential to be lifted by lazy Daily Mail journos (other rags are available).

Cosmos123 · 01/12/2021 21:58

In the name of God she referred to your husband as penis??

What about the other baby boys they have penises too.

Wooky8 · 01/12/2021 21:59

So bad, I hope you manage to get the decision reversed. Very offensive.

DaphneDeloresMoorhead · 01/12/2021 21:59

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead You miss the point. The email sender clearly is using such language BECAUSE of the way trans women are pushing women out of female spaces. No way will she backpeddle, she did this BECAUSE of trans issues. That is the whole point!

Modern life makes my brain hurt

AppleDaily · 01/12/2021 21:59

That email is shocking! Please push to keep your baby and DH in the group.

A practical suggestion: I ran a baby music group with mums, dads, and grandparents. There were often breastfeeding mums.

Some babies happily fed during the group, especially the younger ones. Other babies and toddlers found the atmosphere too distracting to feed and so those mums (and those who just preferred it) went to a comfy sofa next door. When new members joined I pointed out this was open to them.

Can you suggest she gives the breastfeeding mums a choice like this?

It sounds like because there's crossover between your three groups, those mums think the music group is an extension of the breastfeeding group.

I reckon they find the music group more fun and won't really want to leave it, especially when it's made clear it's for the babies not the mums - and there's a separate comfortable place they can feed if they prefer.

It would be awful for your husband and baby to be pushed out.

Cosmos123 · 01/12/2021 21:59

Imagine if a wo.en was referred to as vagina.

The men feel uncomfortable with vagina present.

There would be uproar.

Juniper68 · 01/12/2021 22:00

I have actually heard it all now.

Doona · 01/12/2021 22:00

Mind you, dads can sometimes be awful in a mums group environment. We had one come and lecture us on how his kid was so much better than ours. All talk of birth experiences stopped while he was there. Luckily, he didn't come back or I would have just left the group.

EgdonHeath · 01/12/2021 22:00

I am preternaturally even-tempered so don't feel "livid" about anything. However, even I would baulk at a message which referred to a man as "a penis". Though "mummies" would pretty much finish me off, too.

OP, your son is lucky to have such a great pair of parents, and his dad is evidently modelling 'decent man and father' behaviour, which is worth millions. If I were your husband, I'd be hurt by this - but it is entirely the problem of this group and its leader. He'd be better sticking to the swimming, even if the group leader suddenly realised she was in the wrong relented. I wouldn't want anything more to do with this group if I were him.

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/12/2021 22:01

CheddarGorgeous

I'd be very careful OP (and other posters) this thread has all the potential to be lifted by lazy Daily Mail journos (other rags are available).“

For once, it would be worth printing.

Juniper68 · 01/12/2021 22:04

@MrsSkylerWhite

CheddarGorgeous

I'd be very careful OP (and other posters) this thread has all the potential to be lifted by lazy Daily Mail journos (other rags are available).“

For once, it would be worth printing.

Definitely.
ChemistryBoggle · 01/12/2021 22:04

Could you deliberately misunderstand and think she is referring to your ds? And say oh I thought it was for male and female babies? Then have her spell it out explicitly...then take it to a lawyer.

Bingbangbongbash · 01/12/2021 22:05

@MrsSkylerWhite

CheddarGorgeous

I'd be very careful OP (and other posters) this thread has all the potential to be lifted by lazy Daily Mail journos (other rags are available).“

For once, it would be worth printing.

The Daily Mail won’t allow women to be photographed for their shit rag whilst wearing trousers. They insist you change into a skirt or dress.

Anyone else got a little story to share in case the DM does want to print it, and direct their readers here?

appleturnovers · 01/12/2021 22:06

It is totally fine to have female-only mother and baby groups, (and, contrary to what some PPs have suggested, it is not against the equality act and would not count as discrimination as reasonable exceptions for sex-segregated spaces are allowed).

However, it is a bit unfair to declare it so retroactively. And VERY weird to refer to your husband as a "penis", when presumably he didn't have it out during the session!

However, the woman is probably between a rock and a hard place, and having to choose between potentially losing 10 or so customers or just one so I can see why she did it.

However,

GrumpyLivesInMyHouseNow · 01/12/2021 22:09

I'd want to post this all over Facebook and tag the group in. I know it would probably make it worse but this is awful.