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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to be horrified at the thought of mandatory vaccinations

294 replies

TracyLords · 01/12/2021 15:51

I’m not anti vax. I’ve had my jabs and will get booster this week.

There have been countries in the EU insisting on mandatory vaccination: this concerns me: surely it is up to the individual to decide to get vaccinated (or otherwise)

OP posts:
YungWaffle · 02/12/2021 12:43

@Deisogn
You could take that mindset to it's logical conclusion and ask why someone who earns more than you should pay for your "selfish decision" to not earn more money.
Without taxes we could just not have this conversation. Everyone could make their own choices and pay their own way.
Think about why you wouldn't want that and yours probably on your way to answering your own question.

Bucanarab · 02/12/2021 13:06

I notice you’re just attacking me personally here rather than trying to explain how mandatory vaccination would work in a civilised society.

Stage 1 - Fine
Stage 2 - Enforcement action
Stage 3 - Arrestment of earning/reduction in benefits.

No need to put people in jail and guaranteed that once it hits someone in the pocket they'll loose their objections to having it, in 99.9999999% of cases.

Let's be honest the vast, vast majority of people who refuse it aren't doing so out of any long standing objection to medical intervention and vaccinations. They're objecting because they're gullible sheep who use anecdata and social media to form their opinions. I frequently hear those that refuse say things like "they don't want to risk the side effects however small" yet they never, ever apply that logic to anything else. 100% guarantee if a refuser broke their leg or arm they wouldn't go into hospital and say "please doc, no surgery or pain medication for this, I can't risk the side effects, I'll just let it heal naturally". I'd really love to see the stats on how many people who are against the vaccine regularly take prescription meds

Drumshambo · 02/12/2021 13:08

There's talk about Europe wide mandatory vaccinations. Including for 5-11 year olds.Sooner the better..Pity this country doesn't have the balls to do it!

Drumshambo · 02/12/2021 13:20

@PurpleDaisies

I notice you’re just attacking me personally here rather than trying to explain how mandatory vaccination would work in a civilised society.
The mark of a civilised society is how well we look after the most vulnerable members of it. We do not live in a vacum. There are people and children who are CEV. Who are relying on the rest of us to do the right thing and get vaccinated.
XenoBitch · 02/12/2021 13:29

Stage 3 - Arrestment of earning/reduction in benefits

All the people who said they had the vaccine for "the greater good", yet would see people who are hesitant made homeless and turfed out on the streets. Seems very hypocritical to me.

PurpleDaisies · 02/12/2021 13:33

The mark of a civilised society is how well we look after the most vulnerable members of it. We do not live in a vacum. There are people and children who are CEV. Who are relying on the rest of us to do the right thing and get vaccinated.

Absolutely. We are relying on people to choose to do the right thing. Mandating it in law is a whole different matter.

Drumshambo · 02/12/2021 13:41

@PurpleDaisies

The mark of a civilised society is how well we look after the most vulnerable members of it. We do not live in a vacum. There are people and children who are CEV. Who are relying on the rest of us to do the right thing and get vaccinated.

Absolutely. We are relying on people to choose to do the right thing. Mandating it in law is a whole different matter.

It has to be mandated because a significant minority are selfish entitled fuckers who don't care about anyone but themselves!
PurpleDaisies · 02/12/2021 13:46

It has to be mandated because a significant minority are selfish entitled fuckers who don't care about anyone but themselves!

I don’t agree. Anti vaxxers exist, yes. We need to make better arguments for the vaccine instead of making it illegal not to be vaccinated.

People can change their minds. There were 30k first doses done yesterday.

At what age do you want to start this vaccine mandate from?

soredust · 02/12/2021 14:31

If you choose not to be vaccinated, then you should forfeit your right to enjoy the benefits of the nhs

In that case, all the taxes paid by those that are not receiving NHS treatment because they choose not to be vaccinated should be refunded to them so they can pay for private treatment. You can't exclude people from having NHS care when they have paid into the system that is meant to provide care to everyone, regardless of health status and if you are going to discriminate against the unvaccinated then you must discriminate against anyone whose unhealthy lifestyles impact the NHS and take up more bedspace and nursing care such as the obese, smokers, those who do dangerous sports, those who decide to have multiple children etc. The whole point about the NHS is that it serves everyone without prejudice!

Drumshambo · 02/12/2021 14:50

Germany has just confirmed that unvaxxed people will be excluded from non essential stores, cultural and recreational venues. Hopefully. More countries will follow!

Waxonwaxoff0 · 02/12/2021 15:14

@Drumshambo

Germany has just confirmed that unvaxxed people will be excluded from non essential stores, cultural and recreational venues. Hopefully. More countries will follow!
To be fair I wouldn't have a problem with that as it still gives people a choice. I would have a problem with mandatory vaccinations for all.
theworldsgonefeckingmad · 02/12/2021 15:52

@XenoBitch

Stage 3 - Arrestment of earning/reduction in benefits

All the people who said they had the vaccine for "the greater good", yet would see people who are hesitant made homeless and turfed out on the streets. Seems very hypocritical to me.

I agree @XenoBitch I find it shocking that people can't see how this will affect everyone in the end, as soon as a precedent is set for forcing a vaccine on someone what's to stop forced abortion on the unemployed, forced diets on the obese with fines if they don't lose weight, no cancer treatment if you smoke, all in the name of "saving the NHS" and "for the greater good"
IHateFlies · 02/12/2021 16:20

How about forced sterilisation? Why not? Israel admitted it was doing it to their Ethiopian Jewish immigrants.
Lots of scenarios where that could be cost effective and benefit society.

Deisogn · 02/12/2021 16:38

If we do not mandate the vaccine and the uptake isn't high enough then we will need to raise taxes and fund more hospitals. It's really as simple as that. I know which I prefer.

theworldsgonefeckingmad · 02/12/2021 17:11

@Deisogn if people don't want the vaccine but get fined and don't pay, then end up in court etc taxes go up, so that won't change the tax increases.

Deisogn · 02/12/2021 17:21

@theworldsgonefeckingmad the two aren't comparable in cost by miles....the additional beds and expanding NHS capacity especially ICU beds is astronomically expensive.

mumda · 02/12/2021 17:22

I know more people who've been vaccinated and had covid that unvaccinated.
They haven't stopped transmission or catching it or vaccine escape.
I'm deeply concerned that a booster is offered just three months after the second jab. It's insane. If they don't last very long and do very little than they're useless.
Buying more vaccines means more vaccine escape as they'll spend all the time between variations making a new vaccine for the about to be superceded version.

They drew blood on my second jab too and I'm therefore grateful they didn't kill me because of the clot risk.

maddening · 02/12/2021 17:27

I agree in bodily autonomy, I feel that using testing where people are unwilling to vax is a suitable alternative eg at events or work. How that should apply in the future really depends on how this virus plays out over the next year or 2. Chances are it will peter to a position similar to the flu which would not require vat beyond the most vulnerable and not require testing at the same level we see currently.

maddening · 02/12/2021 17:32

@mumda

"I know more people who've been vaccinated and had covid that unvaccinated."

If 89% are vaccinated of course you know more people that are vaccinated that have had it. I also doubt that your position is garnered from true analytical review of your anecdotal data.

Ps I don't agree wit mandatory vaccinations, I don't disagree with requirements placed on unvaccinated - eg testing

theworldsgonefeckingmad · 02/12/2021 17:36

[quote Deisogn]@theworldsgonefeckingmad the two aren't comparable in cost by miles....the additional beds and expanding NHS capacity especially ICU beds is astronomically expensive. [/quote]
Well seen as over 80% of the beds in ICU patients with Covid are overweight why not charge them? They are the ones costing the money after all

PurpleDaisies · 02/12/2021 17:37

This is a nice illustration.

Aibu to be horrified at the thought of mandatory vaccinations
CaptSkippy · 02/12/2021 17:40

@PurpleDaisies

I notice you’re just attacking me personally here rather than trying to explain how mandatory vaccination would work in a civilised society.
There is no point in continuing to argue if we can't even agree on the defintion of words. An "attack"? Honestly? I wonder what would constitute a "civilized" debate in your eyes? Is it that people can only agree with everything you less lest they are seen as "attacking" you?
Kendodd · 02/12/2021 17:44

Has anyone said how this is actually going to be implemented though?
I very much doubt people will be held down and vaccinated against their will.
If it excluding the unvaccinated from places, well, that's just a vaccine passport by another name.

I'm also very much against compulsory vaccination but don't really see how it would work anyway.
Having said that, I'm not 100% against compulsory vaccination or enforcing isolation. If the world was on the verge of completely eradicating a disease, like polo say, and there were just a couple of pockets left I would be in favour of it for a few people if it meant riding the world forever of something. Obviously, this isn't the case with covid.

CaptSkippy · 02/12/2021 17:46

If we are going the route of bodily autonomy, I got another for the con crowd.
Why should we not allow people to get behind the wheel of their own cars when drunk? They are pouring the liquor down their own throats. They are using their own cars and risking their own lives. Why should they not be allowed to do this? Why should a government be allowed to penalize people for driving drunk?

XenoBitch · 02/12/2021 17:47

@Kendodd

Has anyone said how this is actually going to be implemented though? I very much doubt people will be held down and vaccinated against their will. If it excluding the unvaccinated from places, well, that's just a vaccine passport by another name.

I'm also very much against compulsory vaccination but don't really see how it would work anyway.
Having said that, I'm not 100% against compulsory vaccination or enforcing isolation. If the world was on the verge of completely eradicating a disease, like polo say, and there were just a couple of pockets left I would be in favour of it for a few people if it meant riding the world forever of something. Obviously, this isn't the case with covid.

Probably the threat of fines for not having the vaccine.
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