Aibu to be horrified at the thought of mandatory vaccinations

[TracyLords]

I’m not anti vax. I’ve had my jabs and will get booster this week.

There have been countries in the EU insisting on mandatory vaccination: this concerns me: surely it is up to the individual to decide to get vaccinated (or otherwise)

Again you’re not engaging with the question I asked about what mandatory vaccination actually means in practice @CaptSkippy

I feel like this is one of the most pointless

So pointless I can’t even make it to the end of the sentence.
I give up.

Have fun on your slippery slope.

@CaptSkippy

If we are going the route of bodily autonomy, I got another for the con crowd. Why should we not allow people to get behind the wheel of their own cars when drunk? They are pouring the liquor down their own throats. They are using their own cars and risking their own lives. Why should they not be allowed to do this? Why should a government be allowed to penalize people for driving drunk?

Completely different - there is no downside to not consuming alcohol (or not enough to adversely affect your ability to drive).

Imposing a requirement on someone that has a small risk of killing or injuring them is not ok. And that risk does exist - it is not misinformation. The BBC has reported today that 73 people died after having the AZ vaccine. Yes that is far smaller than the risk from the illness but people have the right to make up their own minds about that risk. Imagine being one of those 73 and you were forced to have the vaccine. All for the good of society - well that's not much consolation if you've lost your mother or sister or brother or son.

People should get vaccinated themselves (or not) and stop imposing their views on others.

@PurpleDaisies

This is a nice illustration.

We have only ever eradicated smallpox through vaccination. Polio we are close but no cigar.

Thus is the common cold virus that'll keep mutating.

Gibraltar told the vulnerable to stay in and protected them that way. However their deaths increased on vaccination.
Israel is on their forth jab and they are still not safe.
Vaccination is useless for covid.

I’m horrified at this. I’m fully vaxxed but been really poorly since my 2nd jab.

Looking at Germany and Austria it is basically identifying a group of people, blaming them for ills in society, ostracising them from a large part of society, trying to get them to give up autonomy over their bodies to carry out a medical procedure. Locking them away. Sound familiar? Last time that happened it was also in the middle of a crisis.

Greece is looking to fine anyone over 60 without a jab. Imagine a few years ago someone saying you would be fined for expressing bodily autonomy.

It’s horrifying that people can’t see what these mandatory vaccines mean in the wider picture.

What next? Low birth rates mean fertile women can get systematically raped by the elite -after all forcing people to lose autonomy over their bodies is apparently fine if it’s for the greater good.

When will we actually learn from history?

@CaptSkippy

If we are going the route of bodily autonomy, I got another for the con crowd. Why should we not allow people to get behind the wheel of their own cars when drunk? They are pouring the liquor down their own throats. They are using their own cars and risking their own lives. Why should they not be allowed to do this? Why should a government be allowed to penalize people for driving drunk?

What the hell is the “con crowd”? And your comparison is not relevant at all!

The vaccines are useless against transmission of covid. The latest variant spread quite easily globally on tested and vaccinated travellers.

@IHateFlies

The vaccines are useless against transmission of covid. The latest variant spread quite easily globally on tested and vaccinated travellers.

I mean, we have plenty of solid scientific evidence disproving that, but why let scientific fact get on the way of your opinions?

@JohnDee007

The "con" crowd are the people who are contra is this discussion. They oppose mandatory vaccinations. I am pro. The right to choose in this case is outweighting the right of a lot of people not to be put at undue risk from this disease.

At this point, not getting vaccinated other than for a medical exemption is directly and indirectly causing the deaths and suffering of other people. This is unacceptable to me.

@fakereview
The chances of something going wrong with the vaccine are extremely low. The chances of dying from COVID or developing serious complications from it are much higher.

There are even greater chances of infecting someone who can't afford to get sick and can't get the vaccine due to medical reasons or where the vaccine didn't take. On top of that, COVID will just keep muting and going around the world, because so many people are yet unvaccinated.

Not getting the vaccine when you can is akin to getting drunk behind the wheel, because of how many lives you are putting at risk.

@Littlecaf

Vaccine passports? Yep I’m fine with that. I don’t want to sit next to someone in the pub who has more chance of infecting me than someone who is vaccinated. That’s my right to be safe.

Fining people who don’t get vaccines? Nope. Making them mandatory? No.

(Making them mandatory for healthcare workers, I’m fine with that.)

So you think you have a right to bodily autonomy but I don't? Why should I have fewer rights than you? Part of starting my training involved being tested for TB immunity and subsequent vaccination against TB and Hep B, I wasn't told flu vaccine may become a condition of my employment nor future vaccines to any unknown at the time diseases. Shop workers, postmen, plumbers etc will also be providing services to, and therefore coming in to contact with, those who are vulnerable.

I've had my three covid vaccines and I'm all for mandatory vaccination against covid for everyone.

I’m not anti-vax but I am very uncomfortable with mandatory vaccination. I’m double vaxxed and am counting down to my booster in a couple of weeks. I would not like to see any compulsory medical treatment in any situation as I don’t think it is right that the government should exercise this level of control over the population.

That being said I do think that it is reasonable for a vaccine to be required for large social events etc. If I was a business owner or employer, I certainly wouldn’t want an outbreak on my conscience when the effects could be minimised by ensuring that everyone attending such an event is fully vaccinated. It’s a difficult situation for all.

I'll support mandatory vaccinations when the government also forces obese people to lose weight and also forces everyone to have 30 minutes of sunlight a day for the vitamin D. These things also reduce your likelihood of getting and passing on the disease why all the focus on only medical intervention!

Of course I won't support any of the above because people should tell their government's what to do not the other way around.

@NollaigNollaig

I don’t get this being horrified. We’re in a middle of a once in a lifetime pandemic. The world has been a total shit show for the past two years and we’re still going round in circles.

It’s a fact that vaccines massively reduce hospitalisation. Would you prefer mandatory vaccines or never returning to life as we know it?

We’re not in a normal situation here. What do you think the world should be doing to try stop this? Keep us all locked down? Overwhelm hospitals and sod who dies? There are no good options. For me taking a safe vaccine is the best option if it gets us back to normal.

I think, without wishing to be completely hyperbolic, once we accept mandatory vaccinations for the general population then life as we know it has already changed forever and we’ll never be back to normal.

How do you come back from forcing medical procedures on people as a civilised society?

What procedure is next?

We’d do far better actually discussing with people why they don’t want to be vaccinated that simply forcing them into it.

YANBU.
I am pro-life and a returned Catholic, so, as all of them are abortion-tainted in some way, I cannot in good conscience take any of them. My obligation to others does not stretch so far as to wilfully do something that I believe could condemn me to Hell for eternity! Furthermore, they are still in the trail period until 2023, so I think it would also be morally wrong to force people to become test subjects in what is still a pharmaceutical experiment.
If some one chooses, of their own free-will to take the shots, and has informed themselves about them to the level of their own understanding, that is their decision. But for governments to mandate them for all is tyranny and if they're allowed to do it, who knows where it will end.

That fact that so many people think you are being unreasonable just shows that so many around us do not have the ability to think for themselves. Scary

Captskippy, the west has hoarded vaccines so yes it will keep going around the unvaccinated in other counties through no fault of their own.

People who are vaccinated can catch COVID and therefore create a mutation.

tcp.art.blog/2021/11/25/all-hail-covid/

Is this real or all made up?

P.S. For the shots to be mandated for anyone at all is tyranny. I am horrified that anyone supports the idea of mandated experimental inoculations. How far would it have to go before they realised that giving anyone that degree of power is dangerous? We have a lot of posts on here about abuse. IMO, mandating the inoculations, for any section of society, against one's will, is abusive.

@Drumshambo

There's talk about Europe wide mandatory vaccinations. Including for 5-11 year olds.Sooner the better..Pity this country doesn't have the balls to do it!

There is talk of this in ‘Europe’ because many of those governments were themselves vaccine hesitant and are now paying the price for that in that they have a larger population percentage unvaccinated than the UK does. Now they know how wrong they were, they are foolish to try to force people. They need to persuade them. Threatening will only make the hesitant more concerned.

[quote CaptSkippy]@JohnDee007

The "con" crowd are the people who are contra is this discussion. They oppose mandatory vaccinations. I am pro. The right to choose in this case is outweighting the right of a lot of people not to be put at undue risk from this disease.

At this point, not getting vaccinated other than for a medical exemption is directly and indirectly causing the deaths and suffering of other people. This is unacceptable to me.[/quote]
I agree. I am against unvaccinated people working in care homes, schools, or anywhere near hospital wards. I think anti-vaxers are selfish, perhaps relying on everyone else being vaccinated to protect them, and not caring much if they spread Covid.
I'm old enough to remember children in calipers thanks to polio, a sight never seen now because of the polio vaccine. I recall a girl in my class deafened by German measles contracted by her mother in pregnancy, also rare now because of vaccines. And the girl who died of diphtheria in our street because
her Dad thought vaccines were poison.
All of you have grown up in a society which is largely free of hellish infectious diseases and you have no fear of illness and think vaccinations are a matter for debate.There isn't time.

YABU

The right not to be vaccinated is not greater than the right of every individual to have a functioning health service. Unvaccinated people are now indirectly causing the deaths of the clinically vulnerable, for whom the vaccine isn't as effective, and anybody who has had to have life-saving surgery postponed because Covid takes up hospital space and time. All those ambulances not arriving on time are also the partial indirect result of the unvaxxed at this stage. And someone's right to not be vaxxed doesn't trump the rights of nurses and doctors to be able to go to work and not be worked to burnout and exhaustion.

So, no, individual liberties are not more important than the collective good. Who fucking cares if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated? What possible real reason can they actually have anyway that isn't just either wrong or mental? And does anybody even believe that reason is more important than saving people's actual lives? I certainly don't.

@ImmyMc Well said !
OP YABU

@ImmyMc

YABU

The right not to be vaccinated is not greater than the right of every individual to have a functioning health service. Unvaccinated people are now indirectly causing the deaths of the clinically vulnerable, for whom the vaccine isn't as effective, and anybody who has had to have life-saving surgery postponed because Covid takes up hospital space and time. All those ambulances not arriving on time are also the partial indirect result of the unvaxxed at this stage. And someone's right to not be vaxxed doesn't trump the rights of nurses and doctors to be able to go to work and not be worked to burnout and exhaustion.

So, no, individual liberties are not more important than the collective good. Who fucking cares if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated? What possible real reason can they actually have anyway that isn't just either wrong or mental? And does anybody even believe that reason is more important than saving people's actual lives? I certainly don't.

👆this

@2Gen

The Pope disagrees with you very strongly on that matter. And it’s not an extraordinary dispensation; Pfizer, Moderna & AZ do not contain stem cells.

When this research was undertaken no vaccines were yet available; & the unvaccinated now are choosing to put themselves in a position where their loved ones will be [doing their equivalent of] seeking the intercession of St Rita & St Jude. If you were to survive [or, please God, be less unwell] but then get Long Covid you'd have a Litany-of-Saints-length list of intercessions to request - and struggle to pray, because Brain Fog robs you of thoughts & words; & reading is too tiring.

You are of course absolutely free to say you simply do not wish to have it, despite all the vaccines having completed the usual clinical trials before they were rolled out. Please, though, don’t spread misinformation about the vaccines being “abortion tainted”*; & trying to use Catholicism as a shield is really rather silly given how well-publicised the Pope’s remarks on the matter have been.

(As a side, but related, note: don’t forget the Church’s position supports ethically acceptable stem cell research [apologies for date of article, but I’m too tired to trawl for one equally concise but more recent - position is still same though] so ensuring you know, where stem cells are used, what their source is, rather matters.)

• On which note, if you’re not actually meaning they contain stem-cells but are hoping others will simply assume that so you’ve not actually lied (still a lie of omission; still a sin; and now you can’t claim it’s unintentional if ever it was) but you can deter more people, that is dreadful. If, however, you’re “just” being very purist, I hope you don’t use medication of any kind (given the way funding, research & researchers work; plus so many companies making oral contraception &/or the MAP); & indeed live in splendid & self-sufficient isolation because you cannot guarantee you’re not coming into contact with people who have had or have provided abortions & are thus, by your logic, Tainting All The Things. Whatever your reasoning, however, as noted above, the Church does not consider the vaccines to be “tainted” in any way.