Page 12 | Aibu to be horrified at the thought of mandatory vaccinations

TracyLords · 2021-12-01T15:51:07+00:00

I’m not anti vax. I’ve had my jabs and will get booster this week. There have been countries in the EU insisting on mandatory vaccination: this concerns me: surely it is up to the individual to decide to get vaccinated (or otherwise)

whenwillthemadnessend · 05/12/2021 20:49

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice#cobssid=s

dohrgitdb · 05/12/2021 21:39

@whenwillthemadnessend
Yep it’s frightening.

What’s the alternative though??

XenoBitch · 05/12/2021 21:42

[quote whenwillthemadnessend]www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice#cobssid=s[/quote]
Singapore charges for all healthcare. They let it go for Covid related stuff though due to the pandemic.
It is not the same as being in a country with free healthcare, such as the UK. Totally different system.

ILoveHuskies · 05/12/2021 21:45

Yanbu

And I'm pro vax

Alltheblue · 05/12/2021 21:49

Yes you are a bit. You're not an island. People can be depressingly self interested and we just can't afford that right now.

ImmyMc · 05/12/2021 22:05

@OMG12

I’m sorry if you have misunderstood my post, which I must admit I thought was fairly clear. To clarify, your points about those you consider to be most impacted by people not being vaccinated. This is covered in the first part of my post, as a recap, all these things were issues pre covid and in certain cases also a combination of issues built up during the first 18 months of the pandemic. ICU beds are always at a premium this time of year, in the pandemic pandemonium we seem to have forgotten that.

I raised the point about scans as a response to how I would respond to your (I must say, unnecessarily emotive) query about how I would respond in you prescribed scenarios. As you seemed concerned about less than definite views on the future consequences of actions I considered it more appropriate to comment on the nearest approximation based on my past or current experience, ie a scan.

Again to make clear, I don’t think it is the issue of a stand alone vaccine mandate that is the issue, I believe the real danger lies in the demonisation, blaming, ostracising and potentially criminalisation of a group of people exercising their personal freedoms, you speak of the fact there will be a release from a mandate where the is a “conscionable objection” herein lies the crux of the problem, the definition of this will be subjective, and who’s subjectivity should we be subject to?

I think we will have to agree on the tipping of the scales regarding individual v societal importance (although I actually believe you can’t have one without the balancing influence of the other) , but that is the beauty of individual freedom having the right to disagree without living in fear of the consequences.

No, they were not. It is a statistical fact that ICU units and ambulance services are under strain now as a result of unvaccinated people and Covid-19. Yes, the NHS is underfunded and this has caused problems, but the current problems with ICU beds are Covid-19 related. This is also true of better-funded health systems all over the world. If you think that the current situation in ICU units is anything like in previous years, you are very much mistaken.

With regards to the conscionable objection, see my previous comments. There is a precedent for this throughout history, so whichever government introduced it would most likely draw from that. That's for any government to decide, should it bring in a vaccine mandate. But it is certainly possible, and it has happened before. As I've also said many times, this is nothing new.

I agree that there is a danger in ostracising groups of people, which is why it is always better that it is a choice. But my point is that if it gets to the stage where the health service buckles and vulnerable people continue to die as a result of unvaccinated groups, then the balance scales may tip in the other direction.

IHateFlies · 05/12/2021 22:07

Are we allowed to be pro choice or just pro vax or anti vax?

Kendodd · 05/12/2021 22:39

I'm sick to death of people too stupid to get the vaccine. I even know someone unvaccinated, who recently died from covid, even then, I struggled to feel much sympathy and my first thought was being pissed off someone could be so stupid.
Having said all that, I still don't think they should be forced to be vaccinated. They can just take their chances against covid, fuck 'em.

tttigress · 05/12/2021 22:50

Could be a very dangerous first step to all kinds of medical interventions.

Really bad idea to start down this route.

bakebeans · 09/12/2021 08:08

@NollaigNollaig mandatory vaccinations are not the answer. This is a free country. We are not being ruled by a communist facist dictatorship and by implementing mandatory vaccinations, it will take away people’s choice and autonomy. I’m staggered the amount of people who have supported this!
Let’s remove the freedom of choice in Britain that we fought for and start with mandatory vaccinations and see what we can change next! Austria’s famous dictator will be smiling in his grave!

ImmyMc · 13/12/2021 09:07

[quote bakebeans]@NollaigNollaig mandatory vaccinations are not the answer. This is a free country. We are not being ruled by a communist facist dictatorship and by implementing mandatory vaccinations, it will take away people’s choice and autonomy. I’m staggered the amount of people who have supported this!
Let’s remove the freedom of choice in Britain that we fought for and start with mandatory vaccinations and see what we can change next! Austria’s famous dictator will be smiling in his grave![/quote]
@bakebeans

Communist fascist?! Is that supposed to be a deliberate oxymoron, or are you serious? If you are serious, I think this surely shows why your views can't be trusted!

bakebeans · 13/12/2021 18:57

ImmyMc ?? You don’t make sense!

CatsArePeople · 13/12/2021 19:05

I would happily have a vaccine if it was safe or at least worked. Not with a side effect of death though.

CatsArePeople · 13/12/2021 19:08

Communist fascist?! Is that supposed to be a deliberate oxymoron, or are you serious?

History 101. Both regimes were totalitarian and not much different from one another is essense.

SoItWas · 13/12/2021 19:10

I'm double jabbed. But that was a choice I made. I don't agree with mandatory vaccination at all.

ImmyMc · 13/12/2021 19:31

@CatsArePeople

Communist fascist?! Is that supposed to be a deliberate oxymoron, or are you serious?

History 101. Both regimes were totalitarian and not much different from one another is essense.

Which regimes do you mean? Plenty of different communist regimes - Cuba v.different to China, for example.

Fascist regimes are right-wing; communist regimes are left-wing, @bakebeans.

As I've pointed out elsewhere on this thread, mandatory vaccinations are nothing new and have not led to the collapse of democracy before!

bakebeans · 13/12/2021 20:21

@ImmyMc
Very true. I’m aware of what they are.

My point is that this is a free country and are neither under a communist or facist dictatorship. If people are to be start being dictated to have mandatory vaccinations, what next? Where does it stop! And Yes some countries have mandatory childhood vaccinations but you need to remember these work differently. They are not vaccinations that are still being researched and new strains and developments coming out all the time.
The NHS and mental health promote patient autonomy and include them
In decision making processes. Mandatory vaccinations go against this especially when they future facts are still not clear.

ImmyMc · 13/12/2021 20:33

[quote bakebeans]@ImmyMc
Very true. I’m aware of what they are.

My point is that this is a free country and are neither under a communist or facist dictatorship. If people are to be start being dictated to have mandatory vaccinations, what next? Where does it stop! And Yes some countries have mandatory childhood vaccinations but you need to remember these work differently. They are not vaccinations that are still being researched and new strains and developments coming out all the time.
The NHS and mental health promote patient autonomy and include them
In decision making processes. Mandatory vaccinations go against this especially when they future facts are still not clear.[/quote]
Plenty of new vaccines were made mandatory in the past. It didn't lead to the collapse of democracy. I understand being opposed to mandatory vaccination on ideological ground, but I think it's hyperbolic to suggest that it will lead to a slippery slope - historically, it's just never been the case

ImmyMc · 13/12/2021 20:34

[quote bakebeans]@ImmyMc
Very true. I’m aware of what they are.

My point is that this is a free country and are neither under a communist or facist dictatorship. If people are to be start being dictated to have mandatory vaccinations, what next? Where does it stop! And Yes some countries have mandatory childhood vaccinations but you need to remember these work differently. They are not vaccinations that are still being researched and new strains and developments coming out all the time.
The NHS and mental health promote patient autonomy and include them
In decision making processes. Mandatory vaccinations go against this especially when they future facts are still not clear.[/quote]
Plenty of new vaccines were made mandatory in the past. It didn't lead to the collapse of democracy. I understand being opposed to mandatory vaccination on ideological ground, but I think it's hyperbolic to suggest that it will lead to a slippery slope - historically, it's just never been the case