Just been kicked out of a group for objecting to being referred to as my reproductive organs

[Gerlais]

Group on Facebook. I was referred to as a “uterus owner”. I objected to this. I’m now banned from the group for being transphobic. Everyone piled on me and if I wasn’t kicked out I would have been leaving anyway. I don’t care what other people want to be called but I will not be referred to as my reproductive organs!! It’s not transphobic to want to be referred to as a woman if you were in fact born female and wish to remain a woman? surely?? Or AIBU?

I dont feel it is inclusive of transmen tbh.

Transmen are female. Therefore they are subject to the same issues the rest of the female population are. They aren't suddenly going to have a change of presentation of their heart attack symptoms or have their risk.of medical assult and battery during child birth suddenly eliminated.

All that happens is they don't get to be counted in the statistics. Or recognised as a victim of a world built by and for men.

I won't be complicit in that. I cant.

It's not supposed to be inclusive of transmen. That's a bone that gets thrown out to those who, by their own admission, don't want to think.

It's supposed to divorce the word "woman" from the meaning "having a female body". To turn womanhood into something anyone can claim. To mess up the language so we can't make the distinction when it matters. So idiots like Sarah Silverman can take the word "girl" to include "man" and then sarcastically ask why girls can't compete against girls in the Olympics. And other idiots can just go "lol".

Transmen are female. Therefore they are subject to the same issues the rest of the female population are. They aren't suddenly going to have a change of presentation of their heart attack symptoms or have their risk.of medical assult and battery during child birth suddenly eliminated

Taking strong hormoes actually increases risks in trans men. For example it brings the menopause on much earlier, and increased risk of osteoporosis [which in a iron deficiency group is quite relevant] and so the OP definitely should be able to call themselves a women, and let transmen call themselves transmen. I don't understand this obsession with pretending that transmen and women are exactly the same. They are not. We and they should be allowed to define themselves. Those kicking women out of groups because they call themselves women [different to both transmen and transwomen] should be held accountable if people don't get appropriate advice to their situation.

Why can't people see this?

Well yes obviously. As if transmen would ever be listened to . They are female. Funny how in this brave inclusive new world everyone still knows who to ignore and threaten with rape and who to listen to.

I dream if the day everyone wakes up and realises that they have been fopled into believing privileged white males are somehow the most oppressed people on the planet with suicide rates and prod rates that surpass veterens,.prisoners of war and concentration camp survivors.

Its beyond a joke

Ptsd rates

And where are the TRAs shouting about this transphobia?

It's only transphobia if you say no to male born transpeople. I think there's a name for that kind privilege.

Dicks are what men like this should be referred to.

@ButtonSister

I really don't get the logic of chest feeder - to feed a human infant you need to produce milk from the mammary glands which are housed in female breasts. If you don't have breasts you can't do that, however much you wish to identify as someone without breasts.

I completely agree. Men still have breast tissue. As does my toddler who says “Daddy’s boobies are hairy and empty.” She is ain’t every impressed with them but still knows they exist. But then children and are generally more excepting of difference and don’t need to bullshit about differences.

I thought they just called it cis woman? Uterus owner what is that 😂 that would really annoy me tbh

The Masons will accept transwomen but not transmen, I wonder why?
Transmen are female.

So transwomen are men/male after all then - or should that be penis havers?

There is another thread in AIBU, where a woman received an email about her husband's attendance at a Baby Music Group where the person running the group asked that her husband no longer attend the group and referred to the husband as a penis. Posters are absolutely outraged, rightly, at the dehumanising language used about the poster's husband not one post has defended it or made excuses for it and yet on here we have posters defending and excusing the same dehumanising language it when it is used about and to women. Truly it is a man's world.

I was just reading and thinking the same thing!

So transwomen are men/male after all then - or should that be penis havers

Shows how women/females miss out/ get screwed over in multiple ways.

Can't inherit titles even of identifying as a man

Can't join the masons even if identifying as a man

Have to change language and write themselves out if their own lives to include anyone and everyone who feels entitled to be included.men are not changing their words BTW. No prostate havers or ejaculaters anywhere.

Have to not only share spaces with men who ID as women along side women jacked up on testosterone who appear very masculine. Must be a mind fuck.

Object to talking about intimate details with a male in the group. Booted put for being being transphobe.

Believe the twaw amd tmam talk, believe it enough to be uncomfortable discussing personal details with someone you are bullied into taking as a man ..well u get kicked out fir that too. I have seen that play out in a group I'm.in.

If you cant see how this entirely fucks over women then I don't know what will

I find myself in the JK Rowling camp. I've been through puberty, childbirth and the menopause and my views are framed by these experiences amongst many others. I work with young people and see and deal with an increasing number of transmen and transwomen. I am nothing but kind and supportive, but I know that my views would be considered by many as transphobic. What I absolutely object to is the term "transphobic". A phobia implies that I have an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to transmen and transwomen. Nothing could be further from the truth and the use of this word is a misnomer, bullying and aggressive, and does nothing to help anyone's cause.

On the subject of kindness, when do women and girls get to be treated with kindness? We're still waiting. We still live in a patriarchal society where we are disproportionately affected by violence, women still do not get paid as much as men, our careers still negatively affected by raising children. It's not that long ago that rape within marriage was not a crime. Some women killed themselves to try to get the right to vote, not that long ago. There are professions and organisations where women are either unwelcome or have to prove themselves beyond the level males do. So much of the world is designed around men (as documented by Caroline Criado Perez). Women's illnesses are treated as less serious. 'Women's interests' are seen as trivial. We live in a sexist, very often misogynistic society, but we are told that we are 'hoarding our privileges'. Women are still trying to attain some sort of equality, we are nowhere near it yet. But when we try to retain the rights and spaces and that we have fought for, we are 'transphobic'. Where's the kindness for us? Where's the respect? I have been nothing but kind and respectful to the trans people I have met over the course of my life.

I personally would be very worried about the safeguarding of the young child (boy) previously mentioned, that was a transitioning 'princess'. Doesn't childhood abuse and trauma usually play a major part in this?

Posters are absolutely outraged, rightly, at the dehumanising language used about the poster's husband not one post has defended it or made excuses for it and yet on here we have posters defending and excusing the same dehumanising language it when it is used about and to women.

I read that thread and was struck by how outraged women are on behalf of a man. I sympathise with their point of view but we see far fewer women express the same level of outrage on behalf of other women.

If you cant see how this entirely fucks over women then I don't know what will

Truthfully you've got to hand it to men, they now get to fuck women over AND play the victim. Why are so many women still invested in be kind when the injustice of it all is so obvious. Will there ever be kindness for women?

@FOJN

Posters are absolutely outraged, rightly, at the dehumanising language used about the poster's husband not one post has defended it or made excuses for it and yet on here we have posters defending and excusing the same dehumanising language it when it is used about and to women.

I read that thread and was struck by how outraged women are on behalf of a man. I sympathise with their point of view but we see far fewer women express the same level of outrage on behalf of other women.

I think the poster of that thread has an ulterior and mischievous motive

@ButtonSister

Funny how uterus-havers can't ID as women, but trans women can identify as women.

Oh uterus-havers can absolutely identify as women. But they don't have to, and if they do it's nothing to do with the fact that they have female biology, it's because they have a womanny mind.

@ButtonSister I thought the same or that it must be a reverse. The posters on that thread are absolutely outraged that a man has been referred to as a penis and that he has been excluded from the group. According to the OP, the group was advertised as a 'parents group' so I certainly see their point.

However, that post differs from this thread in that I haven't seen any 'didn't happen you pearl clutchers!', 'moral panic', 'transphobes' or 'penis is the kind and inclusive term'.

It's a very stark contrast and shows (again) that it isn't men's language being changed in the name of inclusivity.

Why does being 'kind and inclusive' only go one way?

I think the poster of that thread has an ulterior and mischievous motive

I did wonder, the wording of the email seemed somewhat unlikely but even so the response was outrage from 100% of posters.

@MurielSpriggs your post
" in none of your post do I see any evidence that women are being prevented from calling themselves women.

Is that a Clinton defence?

Or are you claiming that the lobbying of the Irish cervical screening service did not happen?
That the TRA lied when claiming the lobbying was to remove the word woman?
That the TRA was not abusive to the women who objected and also objected to the word woman being added back?

If it helps the TRA is a person with vulva.

@Waitwhat23
And in terms of language changing, the gas lighting bothers me. The conversation seems to go like this -

'We aren't very keen about the language we use to refer to ourselves being changed.'

'Don't be ridiculous- it's not happening!'

'It is - here's various examples'.

No, it's not happening, you're all just pearl clutchers!'

'No seriously, here's more examples, both anecdotally and in mainstream use by NHS, Scottish Government etc'

The fingers in ears approach only works for so long.

And the next stage
DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender)

"Don't be silly, go educate yourself so you can be kind"

"I did, I read about clownfish, mushrooms, coral and "lady brain". I understand there is no third sex. Only my sex with ovary and uterus etc. go through menopause"

"How dare you reduce women down to their body parts"

@FOJN hi, yes it was for others who think that self ID is only about suffering with severe gender dysphoria not realising that "being trans" can be an identity the same as "being British"

So what's a "woman" v a "body part person"?

Dear Reader,
In Irish law
Pre 2015 sex = gender
Post 2015 sex = self ID 1 of 2 options then go live in your gender option.

Ireland's equality legislation has an exception
"differences in the treatment of persons on the gender ground in relation to services of an aesthetic, cosmetic or similar nature, where the services require physical contact between the service provider and the recipient,"

Yet barber was fined €5k for refusing a hair cut in the Gender basis.

Now the Canadian equivalent was women having to justify to the State why they would not wax the non-vulva of a woman with penis.

A prominent TRA tweeted in full support of these women being fined ($7k to $25k) and losing their livelihoods. This TRA has a long history of sucessfully campaigning to defund single sex Rape Crisis Centers.

Now the women were of
•minority ethnic groups (not white ones)
•minority religion
•at least one had a disability
•one worked at home
•another went to the clients home

The State agreed that a woman filed the complaints.

Note I have not included how Canada resolved this.

@MothExterminator
But I also don’t understand why some people here say that there is transphobia on this thread.

I genuinely hope this post doesn’t come across as transphobic.

If you can’t talk about menopause issues and have to watch your language, what it the point of the group?

Ask yourself if the word transphobia successfully limited your speech?

@musicalfrog
The UK Judges rule book has been amended to "respect pronouns". A woman who was assaulted was reprimanded by the Judge for refusing to identify her attacker as a woman while giving her sworn testimony.

One reason the Government departments and other public organisation are making public statements about "coming out of Stonewall" is that accepting an lobby group award for adopting their political position ignoring power it plays in shaping public policy.

@RedRobyn2021
I thought they just called it cis woman? Uterus owner what is that 😂 that would really annoy me tbh

Woman, female, cis, cis woman, cervix-haver any language used to differentiate the two sexes is being subverted to be inclusive of males.

Language and word choice is complex communication look at the clip and the use of titles

H: Miss ... Miss...
K: Mr... I am married so Mrs
H: Mrs...
K: Mr.. (no objection from H)
H: first name...
K: it's Mrs.....Mr...
H: it's Dr....

Now listen to the presenter
We are joined by:
Dr...
No title

Can you spot the change to Mr?

@FOJN

I think the poster of that thread has an ulterior and mischievous motive

I did wonder, the wording of the email seemed somewhat unlikely but even so the response was outrage from 100% of posters.

I actually reported that thread because I found it very suspicious. I could maybe believe that a father got chucked from the group, but referred to in the email by his penis?

But it's still there, so I guess it satisfied MNHQ.

Sewing groups are all the same on FB too 🙄