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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to loathe the people here?

735 replies

OnenessWithAllStrife · 30/11/2021 10:06

Some people say that feeling a negative emotion or having unpleasant feelings about something shouldn't define you, that you should let the thoughts flow and then let them go. OK. I hope this to be true :(

But i have lived somewhere for the past 6 years that has brought me to conclusions and created feelings in me that I am not proud of. For the first time in my life I have actually come to loathe people and feel a sense of terror about being stuck with them. This is not particularly politically 'correct' when put into words, unfortunately, but I can't think of any other way to express it.

I moved to a town6 yrs ago in which I don't have much in common with the residents. It isn't unusual, just an ordinary large town which at one time contained more diversity, but in recent years has become very insular and homogenous. Everyone is angry, anti social, or depressed. If you don't openly discuss some sort of prejudice (racism, sexism, anti-intellectualism) you're 'soft in the head' or a 'bloody weirdo'.
Wherever I go here, in any direction, you will either see kids or drunk adults destroying property, or else screaming at each other in the street. There are a few select areas that are less challenging and rough, but the vibe is somehow the same.

Education or reading is a mugs game, football is the only passion, kids are yelled at for merely existing. Any conversation with a seemingly friendly stranger results in them wishing all the foreigners to go home. There is a general air of brutality to everything, a leathery, hard resistance to any kind of sensitivity whatsoever. Art, creativity and self reflection are suspicious, and the only permissible clothing is black or sport branded. Every damned street is choked with the fumes of endlessly revved up vehicles with ear splitting exhaust modifications. The environment is filthy, full of dog shit and bordering on dereliction.

I would once have considered all of this a problem of poverty, but it isn't quite that easy to determine, having witnessed it. There is no seeming variation in behaviour across income brackets here, it looks to be more cultural than income related, although the attitude towards learning, etc will obviously have the effect of creating more poverty regardless. It is like a self perpetuating cesspit of no hope and hard hearts. I thought i was a leftie, a socialist, but when I leave here I will be fucking marked by this and hope to never exist within it ever again.

We moved here for DP's work and are set to leave this coming year. I also appreciate that the residents and I have experienced very different upbringings and we do not share much in common, but even so, I think that you have to endure this to really, really see it, to come to fear it. It is easy to sit in a comfy armchair miles from it and 'defend' this stuff because you haven't truly sampled the existential sickness of it on your own doorstep.
I wish i didn't feel it, but it is difficult to lie to oneself, and the fear has probably evolved from having felt 'stuck' in it for so long. I wfh and DP does part time (some here regard us as 'pretentious' for this and have suggested we ought to do some 'real' work). It all feels very dated and odd, to be surrounded by values that repulse me and contain so little diversity. I mean, this is the type of place where you'll get side-eyed for cooking from scratch or having the audacity to flavour a dish with pesto.

Does this mean I loathe them? I don't know. I imagine I will chill with it when we have moved, as it all becomes a distant memory, but it has certainly left a mark. It feels wrong to state these feelings and observations, but I bet I am not the only one who has thought them....

OP posts:
PotatoPie888 · 30/11/2021 13:55

@ThousandsOfTulips I can tell you with absolute certainly that a lot of very good people are working hard to do huge things culturally in Wigan and surrounding areas. I would be happy to give you a guided tour if you are ever in the area.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:55

@whatstobecomeofus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a lot to be said for being able to walk down the street without getting missiles lobbed at you.
I agree. Hence no move to Northern towns or Syria planned anytime soon, despite the tempting property prices. 🤣
Bumpsadaisie · 30/11/2021 13:56

@ThousandsOfTulips

It sounds like the OP really tried to find the good in the place but was met with high crime rates, aggression, vandalism, racial abuse, general unfriendliness and lots of dog shit.

Bit hard to see the positives in that situation.

How would she know if there is "love" behind the closed doors of the bigots who refused to let her integrate into the community, call her "posh" and make her feel unwelcome at best, threatened at worst?

Some of these comments are utterly ridiculous.

Gavel banged and judgment reached on the good people of Wigan! 🤣

There will be love in the houses on the OPs street - whether the OP can see it or not. Because they're human beings, not some kind of underclass subspecies.

ParsleySageRosemary · 30/11/2021 13:56

I knew it would be the north west. Grin. There is something about the culture there. Very male macho, very aggressive, very destructive, very, I don't know commercial. The only value they have is conspicuous consumption, and it is very very insular. Yes some individuals are nice, but it is a depressing region.

At one time it was widely known that the north was sexist, I don't know when it became so pc to not mention it.

Courtier · 30/11/2021 13:56

[quote needtogetfit21]@OnenessWithAllStrife Huddersfield?[/quote]
Huddersfield is not in between Manc and Liverpool - it's near Leeds...

FreshFreesias · 30/11/2021 13:57

This is really quite an offensive snobbish post.
I’m sure there is plenty of “diversity” in a place like Wigan.
Perhaps the OP should move to Putney. Nice middle class people, lots of pesto eating people and our MP is called Fleur 🤣

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:57

[quote PotatoPie888]@ThousandsOfTulips I can tell you with absolute certainly that a lot of very good people are working hard to do huge things culturally in Wigan and surrounding areas. I would be happy to give you a guided tour if you are ever in the area.[/quote]
That's very kind of you. I'm glad they are: it sounds like it is very much needed! I live a long way away and no longer have any family up in that neck of the woods so I'm unlikely to be visiting.

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 30/11/2021 13:57

ThousandsofTulips I'm glad you had opportunities and were able to make the most of them. Why would you think that applies to everyone in every town? The high Brexit vote in many poor areas was directly correlated to a dire lack of prospects.

I'm pretty sure that Tory bedroom taxes and benefit caps have a lot more to do with Wigan's current plight, than Brexit.

Yanbu OP, it drags you down living somewhere like that.

IamAporcupine · 30/11/2021 13:57

@lazylinguist

It's weird how defensive so many people get when someone says they don't want to live in a depressing shithole full of racists.

Indeed. Well summed up! Nobody actually wants to live somewhere like that, but apparently it's not ok to say so.

I too find the defensiveness in this thread really odd.

I am the child of a heroin addict who overdosed on my 7th birthday and I grew up in care. I now live in a five bedroom Georgian Terrace five minute's walk from a fucking Waitrose, I still manage not to be a nasty, hateful snob.

So you did move out and now live in a nice area?

I do not think the OP is a nasty or hateful snob at all. She just dislikes living in a place where you encounter racism, sexism and vandalism on a daily basis. Same as most of us, including you apparently.

x2boys · 30/11/2021 13:57

@ParsleySageRosemary

I knew it would be the north west. Grin. There is something about the culture there. Very male macho, very aggressive, very destructive, very, I don't know commercial. The only value they have is conspicuous consumption, and it is very very insular. Yes some individuals are nice, but it is a depressing region.

At one time it was widely known that the north was sexist, I don't know when it became so pc to not mention it.

Massive generalisation there 🙄
Cordyceps · 30/11/2021 13:57

@Unihorn interesting to know that you believe that child abuse and sexual assault don't happen among the middle and upper classes.

PotatoPie888 · 30/11/2021 13:58

@ParsleySageRosemary Just wow.

Pipsquiggle · 30/11/2021 13:58

OP - are you able to move? What's holding you back? If you live in one of the grim parts of Wigan, I would want to move ASAP.

To those who are having a go at OP - have you ever visited one of these towns? Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley, Rochdale to name but a few. There are some parts of these towns that are truly awful. There are very few opportunities, the infrastructure is poor - transport and social enterprise. Crucially the lack of social mobility is just soul destroying - it's worse now than it was 20 years ago

ParsleySageRosemary · 30/11/2021 14:00

What some lefties failed to appreciate - and it is probably why the red wall changed blue - is that some people take all the well intentioned good meanings and spit on them. Working people are a little tired of being sucked dry to stop the drug culture for instance, especially while it is being supported by the aristos with real money, and women are tired of being told to be ever more nice to men who just want to fuck everything they see in a skirt.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 14:00

There will be love in the houses on the OPs street - whether the OP can see it or not. Because they're human beings, not some kind of underclass subspecies.

Nobody said they were. 🙄

However, given the crime rates there are likely to be a disproportionate numbers of neglected/ abused children. Certainly no greater amount of love than people elsewhere in the country also have for their children. That's not a selling point for a specific area, it's normal to love your children wherever you live.

In terms of how this is relevant to the OP, I don't understand? If she has lived there for many years and felt threatened and systematically excluded and been targeted with racial discrimination, what use is it to her to know that some of her neighbours may actually love their own children (as one would expect)?

crackofdoom · 30/11/2021 14:01

cordyceps I wouldn’t put spiralling gentrification and house prices in the Bay Area down to any kind of left wing ideals- rather, unbridled capitalism 🙄

x2boys · 30/11/2021 14:01

@Pipsquiggle

OP - are you able to move? What's holding you back? If you live in one of the grim parts of Wigan, I would want to move ASAP.

To those who are having a go at OP - have you ever visited one of these towns? Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley, Rochdale to name but a few. There are some parts of these towns that are truly awful. There are very few opportunities, the infrastructure is poor - transport and social enterprise. Crucially the lack of social mobility is just soul destroying - it's worse now than it was 20 years ago

Most have nice areas though ,I live in Bolton and it's very grim in parts ,but there are also some very nice areas .
lazylinguist · 30/11/2021 14:02

Do you really expect me to believe that nothing good ever happens in the OPs street? That there is never love not joy?

That leads to the question why is she doing that? There must be some psychological purpose to it, a need to see the world through that lens. I don't doubt that the OP is giving an authentic account of her honest experience. Doesn't mean it's necessarily the reality.

Doesn't mean it's not the reality either. The odd glimmer of 'love and joy ' amongst the crime and deprivation isn't enough to stop somewhere from being a depressing and horrible place to live. Well, not for most people I shouldn't think.

I'm fortunate to have never lived somewhere like the OP's description. I'm a fairly positive person, but the places I've lived have been nice. Not because of my psychological lens, but because I've been able to choose nice places to live. Besides, it is evident from numerous other posts on this thread that the OP's view of Wigan is not peculiar to her and her lens! So to suggest this is something the OP is doing due to a psychological need is frankly just ridiculous psychobabble. What the OP needs is to move somewhere significantly less shit!

FestiveFruitloop · 30/11/2021 14:02

I thought you was going to say up North. Everything you described sounds like I've watched on benefits street!

@SelfHelpPlease have you ever actually been to anywhere in the north yourself? Just thought I'd ask as that's a fairly disgusting (not to mention inaccurate) level of prejudice you just displayed there.

I was lucky enough to be born and raised in a reasonably 'Middle Class' area {Richmond, Surrey} I visited a city way up North, and was shocked at how different it was, it seemed 20 years behind London, in so many ways.

@oakleaffy the way your post juxtaposes 'middle class area' and 'up North' is really offensive. As though every place 'up North' is automatically shit. Have you actually spent much time in the north or was it a one-off visit?

And before anyone accuses me of being a northerner with a chip on their shoulder, yes I am northern but I have also moved around the country enough to be able to see that everywhere has shitty areas and most places have nice areas too. The broad brushstrokes on this thread are revealing a lot of knee-jerk prejudices on the part of certain people.

That said - OP, I come from somewhere that has a lot of the elements you're so disheartened with, and I ended up feeling the same way about a lot of the residents (I was regularly called a snob for being well spoken and good at my school work, and bullies would walk alongside me with their noses in the air, and that's just the tip of the iceberg) but I retain a lifelong love of the town regardless, because there's also a lot to love there both in terms of people and environment. I don't think I'd feel that way if I'd been living in the sort of environment you describe, though, so I totally get it.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 14:02

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

ThousandsofTulips I'm glad you had opportunities and were able to make the most of them. Why would you think that applies to everyone in every town? The high Brexit vote in many poor areas was directly correlated to a dire lack of prospects.

I'm pretty sure that Tory bedroom taxes and benefit caps have a lot more to do with Wigan's current plight, than Brexit.

Yanbu OP, it drags you down living somewhere like that.

If you had any idea about my life you'd know how absurd this comment is. I had the very opposite of a privileged upbringing.
Lonelycrab · 30/11/2021 14:02

Totally get what the op is on about. And I’d love to see all those posters deriding her as a snob etc get plonked in a part of that town at 9pm for a stroll around, I’m sure the judgement would soon disappear.

The country is definitely becoming more feral and angry- I’ve been in a few situations in towns similar to this where I’ve encountered huge groups of teenagers clad in the obligatory black tracksuit, hoods up basically going around kicking shit out of everything around them. It’s fucking grim and I’d love to see some of these posters trying to “engage” with that. You don’t engage, you get away sharpish. Ditto racism and insularity, casual violence and hatred of anyone different, it seems to be much more common because it’s been emboldened by this government. I’ve been randomly assaulted twice in the last 24 months, never before that.

Police numbers were slashed.
Youth clubs and libraries shut.
Funding withdrawn for education support.
The message that if you don’t like the rule of law you ignore it.
Also now the stench of nationalism.

All the while the Tories continue to siphon off OUR money to give to their rich friends while the country goes to shit. Billions and billions at a time into their own pockets, instead of investment in these communities.

I don’t know the answer op as I think more and more places are becoming like this. We haven’t reached the bottom of it yet. Levelling up-my arse, there’s only one direction of travel.

FestiveFruitloop · 30/11/2021 14:04

@ParsleySageRosemary

I knew it would be the north west. Grin. There is something about the culture there. Very male macho, very aggressive, very destructive, very, I don't know commercial. The only value they have is conspicuous consumption, and it is very very insular. Yes some individuals are nice, but it is a depressing region.

At one time it was widely known that the north was sexist, I don't know when it became so pc to not mention it.

Overgeneralise much??

You sound like you know the north-west fairly well, but if you do I'm amazed you have such a narrow concept of it. There's so much more to it.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 14:05

The high Brexit vote in many poor areas was directly correlated to a dire lack of prospects

Also this is just bonkers. Anybody with a reading age above 10 was capable of accessing the many freely available robust studies which unequivocally showed Brexit would make sure people poorer and drastically reduce their standard of living and opportunities, even if they were not great to start with.

In either wilful ignorance or laziness they chose to make themselves poorer and diminish their prospects further. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Cordyceps · 30/11/2021 14:05

@IamAporcupine I do live in a nice area, but I haven't always, and when I lived with a foster family on (what was considered) a sink estate I didn't feel like I was surrounded by particularly nasty people. In fact in my life the most racist, insular, small-minded, and soulless people I've known have tended to be the ones wearing watches that cost more than my car.
I'm not going to be argued into hating the working class. The reason Wigan and a thousand other towns in the UK are grey and depressing is not because the people who live there are somehow less human (which is what OP is saying, in spite of the fancy words). The reason Wigan is grey and depressing is because the people who live there are demonised for everything wrong in society and every bit of support and any semblance of a social safety net has been stripped away. If you want to pile on and add your disdain and hate on top of that feel free, I'm not joining in.

ParsleySageRosemary · 30/11/2021 14:05

A lot of the aggression comes from the internet culture youngsters are saturated in. Which naturally parents can't control or turn off because that would be cruel to the kids, or because they can access it everywhere anyway, or because kids know the internet better. Some comes from the economic hopelessness.

We could actually try to make places better instead of pretending shit holes like this don't exist.