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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to loathe the people here?

735 replies

OnenessWithAllStrife · 30/11/2021 10:06

Some people say that feeling a negative emotion or having unpleasant feelings about something shouldn't define you, that you should let the thoughts flow and then let them go. OK. I hope this to be true :(

But i have lived somewhere for the past 6 years that has brought me to conclusions and created feelings in me that I am not proud of. For the first time in my life I have actually come to loathe people and feel a sense of terror about being stuck with them. This is not particularly politically 'correct' when put into words, unfortunately, but I can't think of any other way to express it.

I moved to a town6 yrs ago in which I don't have much in common with the residents. It isn't unusual, just an ordinary large town which at one time contained more diversity, but in recent years has become very insular and homogenous. Everyone is angry, anti social, or depressed. If you don't openly discuss some sort of prejudice (racism, sexism, anti-intellectualism) you're 'soft in the head' or a 'bloody weirdo'.
Wherever I go here, in any direction, you will either see kids or drunk adults destroying property, or else screaming at each other in the street. There are a few select areas that are less challenging and rough, but the vibe is somehow the same.

Education or reading is a mugs game, football is the only passion, kids are yelled at for merely existing. Any conversation with a seemingly friendly stranger results in them wishing all the foreigners to go home. There is a general air of brutality to everything, a leathery, hard resistance to any kind of sensitivity whatsoever. Art, creativity and self reflection are suspicious, and the only permissible clothing is black or sport branded. Every damned street is choked with the fumes of endlessly revved up vehicles with ear splitting exhaust modifications. The environment is filthy, full of dog shit and bordering on dereliction.

I would once have considered all of this a problem of poverty, but it isn't quite that easy to determine, having witnessed it. There is no seeming variation in behaviour across income brackets here, it looks to be more cultural than income related, although the attitude towards learning, etc will obviously have the effect of creating more poverty regardless. It is like a self perpetuating cesspit of no hope and hard hearts. I thought i was a leftie, a socialist, but when I leave here I will be fucking marked by this and hope to never exist within it ever again.

We moved here for DP's work and are set to leave this coming year. I also appreciate that the residents and I have experienced very different upbringings and we do not share much in common, but even so, I think that you have to endure this to really, really see it, to come to fear it. It is easy to sit in a comfy armchair miles from it and 'defend' this stuff because you haven't truly sampled the existential sickness of it on your own doorstep.
I wish i didn't feel it, but it is difficult to lie to oneself, and the fear has probably evolved from having felt 'stuck' in it for so long. I wfh and DP does part time (some here regard us as 'pretentious' for this and have suggested we ought to do some 'real' work). It all feels very dated and odd, to be surrounded by values that repulse me and contain so little diversity. I mean, this is the type of place where you'll get side-eyed for cooking from scratch or having the audacity to flavour a dish with pesto.

Does this mean I loathe them? I don't know. I imagine I will chill with it when we have moved, as it all becomes a distant memory, but it has certainly left a mark. It feels wrong to state these feelings and observations, but I bet I am not the only one who has thought them....

OP posts:
Cam2020 · 30/11/2021 13:06

OP, I spent a few years somewhere similar as a tween and it was depressing. Anyone who showed any interest in learning was branded a boffin and taunted. Not being on free school meals and having two parents meant I was 'posh' and ridiculed. Children played in the street as soon as they could toddle and antisocial behaviour was rife. It's a toss up between whether the worst thing I saw was a six year old smoking or the same child taking a shit in someone's front garden.

Not everyone was like that, there were some decent people but it was a horrible environment, thoroughly depressing and dragged everyone down. My parents moved as soon as they could.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:07

@ThousandsOfTulips

There's a real Little England feel in lots of the country, especially after Brexit. It doesn't make someone a snob not to want any part of it.

Absolutely. It's made a lot of these racists feel that it is not acceptable to express their vile prejudices in public, whereas previously they at least kept their "opinions" to themselves.

*now acceptable! 🙄
Cordyceps · 30/11/2021 13:08

@Wingutyoy what is actually wrong with you? I am "at home with the dregs of society" because I don't agree with painting the entirety of a city as some sort of nasty stinking underclass?

I am the child of a heroin addict who overdosed on my 7th birthday and I grew up in care. I now live in a five bedroom Georgian Terrace five minute's walk from a fucking Waitrose, I still manage not to be a nasty, hateful snob. You can take your cheap biscuit back, I've got some really nice ones in the cupboard.

Bumpsadaisie · 30/11/2021 13:08

In the OPs community right now -

  • a couple are making love
  • a mum or dad is looking at their baby and thinking how much they love them
  • a kid is writing their Xmas list
  • two friends are having a cup of tea and a nice chat.

Sure there may be social problems and aggression and disorder and drugs. Sure it may be depressing but doesn't mean there can be no other story.

But often hard heartedness is in the eye of the beholder.

If you can't see anything AT ALL positive in your community OP then respectfully I suggest that the problem is with you.

If you have a need to see ugliness then that is what you will see.

fournonblondes · 30/11/2021 13:09

You should move as it sounds miserable. You can’t change a whole town 🤣

Funny I feel livid that my fav cities have been destroyed by the ideas of the liberal left. Why do they take over beautiful places and run these places down? Los Angeles, San Francisco, Barcelona…

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:10

@Bumpsadaisie

In the OPs community right now -
  • a couple are making love
  • a mum or dad is looking at their baby and thinking how much they love them
  • a kid is writing their Xmas list
  • two friends are having a cup of tea and a nice chat.

Sure there may be social problems and aggression and disorder and drugs. Sure it may be depressing but doesn't mean there can be no other story.

But often hard heartedness is in the eye of the beholder.

If you can't see anything AT ALL positive in your community OP then respectfully I suggest that the problem is with you.

If you have a need to see ugliness then that is what you will see.

Those things will also be happening in areas where people aren't committing arson or burglary, smashing windows, running cannabis farms, etc. Not really much of a selling point, is it?

"You are likely to be mugged or racially abused in the street but hey, some local people can still write Christmas lists or manage a conversation over a cuppa" said no estate agent, ever.,

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:12

@fournonblondes

You should move as it sounds miserable. You can’t change a whole town 🤣

Funny I feel livid that my fav cities have been destroyed by the ideas of the liberal left. Why do they take over beautiful places and run these places down? Los Angeles, San Francisco, Barcelona…

Los Angeles, beautiful? 🤣 Have you had an eye test recently?
Tilltheend99 · 30/11/2021 13:12

No offence but the only thing that popped into my head reading this were the lyrics to Common People by Pulp:
“ But still you'll never get it right
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah
You'll never live like common people
You'll never do whatever common people do
You'll never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And you dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do
Sing along with the common people
Sing along and it might just get you through
Laugh along with the common people
Laugh along even though they're really laughing at you
And the stupid things that you do
Because you think that poor is cool
Like a dog lying in a corner
They will bite you and never warn you
Look out, they'll tear your insides out
'Cause everybody hates a tourist
Especially one who thinks it's all such a laugh
Yeah and the chip stains and grease
Will come out in the bath
You will never understand
How it feels to live your life
With no meaning or control
And with nowhere left to go
You are amazed that they exist
And they burn so bright
Whilst you can only wonder why”

Or my dad would probably call you a champagne socialist; holding ideas that you don’t want to live by yourself.

But on the other hand, it’s perfectly acceptable to hate the atmosphere of a place. I would say the acceptability of antisocial behaviour across all ages and ‘classes’ is quite evenly spread at the moment. The Tory/Libdem coalition did a good job of removing public spaces and amenities so that society is a shadow of what it formally was. Boris’s red wall conversion has convinced formally friendly northerners to abandon their communities for a chance of investment that will probably never materialise.

buntybanana · 30/11/2021 13:13

You are likely to be mugged or racially abused in the street but hey, some local people can still write Christmas lists or manage a conversation over a cuppa" said no estate agent, ever.

😂😂 brilliant

ILoveShula · 30/11/2021 13:13

Is a 'smack' a battered slice of potato?

GonnaBeYoniThisChristmas · 30/11/2021 13:14

I really empathise with the OP.

I grew up in (near) a town which is consistently on “worst in Britain” type lists.

There was frequently pub violence. Everyone knew each other, but not in a nice way, more like in a “you’re not from round here” way.

There was also a very nasty undercurrent of under-employed men cruising younger girls, which I put down to joblessness and lack of aspiration (on the part of the girls).

I remember from about the age of 10 knowing that I needed to get away.

When I did something aspirational (like staying on in the sixth form) I was jeered at and sneered at and called snobby. I’m glad I had a thick skin and a desire to escape.

It was not a nice place.

Hope you move soon OP.

inferiorCatSlave · 30/11/2021 13:15

It's weird how defensive so many people get when someone says they don't want to live in a depressing shithole full of racists.

I grew up in mildands actually in same county as the town we hated - it was eye openingly depressing there were even BNP marches in the town when we lived there - town went after coalition government from labour to tories and been tory ever since.

There were people trying to make changes but I think it was stagnating and driving talent away and a million miles away from the attitudes I grew up with in the same county.

DH and I grew up working class and many of my DC peers and friends are living in a socio economic deprived council estate and don't have the attitude that town did.

Not everyone was like that, there were some decent people but it was a horrible environment, thoroughly depressing and dragged everyone down. My parents moved as soon as they could.

This was our experience.

I've not been to Wigan or lived there - but have experienced an insular town and do sadly recognise what the OP is saying.

Cordyceps · 30/11/2021 13:16

I just remembered a guy I used to work with from Wigan everyone called PeaWet because apparently in Wigan you can get a splash of pea juice on your chips as a treat? He was a complete wanker but OP would have probably loved him because he wore Barbour and drove a Jaguar and ate expensive food.

Almostmenopausal · 30/11/2021 13:17

@OnenessWithAllStrife

Ok ladies it is sitting snugly and proudly between Manchester and Liverpool.
Skelmersdale!!!
ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:18

@Tilltheend99

No offence but the only thing that popped into my head reading this were the lyrics to Common People by Pulp: “ But still you'll never get it right 'Cause when you're laid in bed at night Watching roaches climb the wall If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah You'll never live like common people You'll never do whatever common people do You'll never fail like common people You'll never watch your life slide out of view And you dance and drink and screw Because there's nothing else to do Sing along with the common people Sing along and it might just get you through Laugh along with the common people Laugh along even though they're really laughing at you And the stupid things that you do Because you think that poor is cool Like a dog lying in a corner They will bite you and never warn you Look out, they'll tear your insides out 'Cause everybody hates a tourist Especially one who thinks it's all such a laugh Yeah and the chip stains and grease Will come out in the bath You will never understand How it feels to live your life With no meaning or control And with nowhere left to go You are amazed that they exist And they burn so bright Whilst you can only wonder why”

Or my dad would probably call you a champagne socialist; holding ideas that you don’t want to live by yourself.

But on the other hand, it’s perfectly acceptable to hate the atmosphere of a place. I would say the acceptability of antisocial behaviour across all ages and ‘classes’ is quite evenly spread at the moment. The Tory/Libdem coalition did a good job of removing public spaces and amenities so that society is a shadow of what it formally was. Boris’s red wall conversion has convinced formally friendly northerners to abandon their communities for a chance of investment that will probably never materialise.

Cocker's mother was a Conservative councillor, so your post did make me laugh I have to say.
Almostmenopausal · 30/11/2021 13:20

@OnenessWithAllStrife

OK, it is Wigan.

Im originally from Kendal. Lived in a few places across the north, this is the worst. Im sure there are many that could compete, like goddamn Barrow, but there you go.

Haha my daughter's father is from Wigan!* You are absolutely correct that it is a hell hole! Truly. *(Hasn't seen her in 6 years!)
Grenlei · 30/11/2021 13:20

I was expecting the town being described to be Chatham.

lazylinguist · 30/11/2021 13:20

If you can't see anything AT ALL positive in your community OP then respectfully I suggest that the problem is with you.

If you have a need to see ugliness then that is what you will see.

Sorry, but what a load of trite nonsense! You see what is there in front of you. And if what you see is loads of anti-social behaviour, crime, violence, racism and sexism, then no amount of imagining a hypothetical child writing their Christmas list is going to help. Why would the OP be creating this out of a 'need to see ugliness'? Are you suggesting that she'd see the same things if she went to live in a lovely, friendly, affluent place?

olivehater · 30/11/2021 13:21

It’s what happens when you remove industry from an area. Not everyone is bright enough to go to uni get a professional job. You need something constructive for everyone else to do. We will see the degradation of society more and more as the minimum wage jobs are replaced by robots.

ThousandsOfTulips · 30/11/2021 13:22

@Cordyceps

I just remembered a guy I used to work with from Wigan everyone called PeaWet because apparently in Wigan you can get a splash of pea juice on your chips as a treat? He was a complete wanker but OP would have probably loved him because he wore Barbour and drove a Jaguar and ate expensive food.
Didn't see her complaining about people not having expensive things? Just their prejudices, attitudes, insularity, lack of manners, aggression and crime etc.
Almostmenopausal · 30/11/2021 13:23

@fairynick

You must be fucking joking, I’ve just bought a new build in Wigan and was excited about going until now Sad
Don't do it! It's honestly horrendous. As I said above, my DD's dad is from there and omg. Miserable, horrible place.
HedgeSparrow · 30/11/2021 13:23

I feel some people are getting quite worked up about the way the OP's post was written, which sort of misses the point. I imagine, given she writes well, there was a bit of hyperbole and creative exaggeration borne of anger, but that doesn't alter the fact that she paints a very recognisable picture.

I grew up in Barnsley in the 1970s and 1980s. It was a shit hole then and it's a shit hole now, for different reasons. When the pits were open people had work, but generally the place was still intolerant of difference and education, because a hard life relies on community cohesion that keeps everyone in their place. Once the pits closed the attitude remained, but as unemployment and resultant social problems tore the old ways apart, people seemingly could only express the same attitudes but in a more entrenched way.

Not everyone in these places is bad of course! There are some lovely people, as with everywhere. I had a life there, and friends, but I always felt I was acting somehow to fit in, which was exhausting. There was an unspoken social contract that no-one could 'get above themselves'. I was called posh because my parents had one bookshelf with some books on it. True fact. Every Saturday night every man wore a checked shirt and shiny shoes and every girl a short dress. To do different was to invite violence. I got out as soon as I could.

I did live in London and outer London for a while. I loved more central London areas but hated the outskirts as people were unfriendly and small minded in a different way. Some places definitely have a culture which transcends individuals. Now I live in a northern city which some people have bad ideas about, but I love living here - culture, aspiration and acceptance but also a bit of grit too.

@OnenessWithAllStrife I hope you get out soon!

x2boys · 30/11/2021 13:23

@Cordyceps

I just remembered a guy I used to work with from Wigan everyone called PeaWet because apparently in Wigan you can get a splash of pea juice on your chips as a treat? He was a complete wanker but OP would have probably loved him because he wore Barbour and drove a Jaguar and ate expensive food.
Yes pea wet is definitely a thing ,and scraps of course .
Tilltheend99 · 30/11/2021 13:24

@RedHot22

You have to involve yourself into the community. I could go on but you’re moving anyway.

Have you considered where you’re moving to very carefully and how you plan to integrate into that society better?

Lol! This in spades.
Unihorn · 30/11/2021 13:24

@Bumpsadaisie

In the OPs community right now -
  • a couple are making love
  • a mum or dad is looking at their baby and thinking how much they love them
  • a kid is writing their Xmas list
  • two friends are having a cup of tea and a nice chat.

Sure there may be social problems and aggression and disorder and drugs. Sure it may be depressing but doesn't mean there can be no other story.

But often hard heartedness is in the eye of the beholder.

If you can't see anything AT ALL positive in your community OP then respectfully I suggest that the problem is with you.

If you have a need to see ugliness then that is what you will see.

And in many deprived areas for every one family partaking in the above wholesome activities, there's probably just as many
  • men raping women
  • parents smacking their baby because they don't like them crying
  • children unable to write their Christmas list because their attendance is non existent
  • friends screaming profanities at each other in the street

I grew up on a council estate and currently live an ex mining town full of similar vibes to Wigan by the sounds of it. It's nowhere near as bad as the OP says in my particular area thankfully, but I really don't think we should be chastising people for not wanting to live in xenophobic, sexist places.