No Religious Christmas cards

[mumofEandE]

I was in one of those 'cheap card shops' and a customer asked if there were any Religious Christmas cards.
There weren't.
I am not a practising Christian/ or practising anything (!) but this really made me feel that this is wrong!

[quote BeaMends]@ErrolTheDragon Yes I do know the symbolic significance of the dove. The dove on the card carries an olive branch, a clear reference to the Old Testament and the story of Noah's Ark, which has nothing to do with the birth of Christ. The dove is also occasionally used as a symbol for the Holy Spirit - but how many non-practising Christians or those of other faiths (or indeed none) would immediately recognise that?

And for the other cynics, yes I did look, and it just goes to show that you had to go through the whole lot with a fine tooth comb to find anything at all - which you did more thoroughly than me, since I was about to go out, and have only just got back in. @brieislife - you managed to find a whole three. Three out of 41.

I don't care one way or the other whether I give or receive cards with any kind of religious symbolism on them. I chose Tesco only because I happened to have their tab open anyway, looking at their kettles.

If I'd known I was going to stir up the indignant hornets by posting, I wouldn't have fucking bothered.[/quote]
Just lol. You don’t get to essentially lie to make a point and then throw a strop when people pull you up on said fib. If your point is valid you shouldn’t need to make shit up to support it.

I got some from Waitrose. I am not religious but I thought the artwork was lovely. Non religious cards are those daft ones with cats wearing Santa hats etc.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I am curious what the Christians would like the atheists to do. I don't mean the lovely Christians I know who couldn't give a crap. I mean the ones who go on about atheists and Christmas.

1. Stop celebrating altogether. Ignore Christmas, not buy anything, not have people over. OK so wouldn't that be quite miserable and 'erasing' Christmas?

1. Celebrate Yule. Say Happy Yule or Seasons Greetings, buy trees, lights, holly, mistletoe, food, but not join in the religious stuff. See above with added 'Seasons Greeting those bastards, it's Christmas'. And wouldn't we have the same issue but now we'd be annoying the pagans?

1. Convert for Christmas. Hypocritical and offensive.

1. Celebrate but acknowledge it's not really for us and we're here under sufferance.

1. Pretend. Go to Mass, have nativities everywhere, sing carols. See 3.

Because it might be Christian but it's also pagan and other traditions. There aren't many seasonal places which don't have some kind of midwinter festival. And harvest, and Spring. They're just built in.

I would like to point out that atheists have Christianity imposed (the Lords, schools etc.) and if we put up with 'cultural Christianity' when it suits Christians, shouldn't we get the good stuff too?

@MrsTerryPratchett personally as a Christian I am very unbothered about why people celebrate Christmas, and just enjoy seeing people celebrating. Joy is a good thing and we need more of it in this world. So I'd join you in the Bailey's, and then go and find joy in celebrating the birth of Jesus, then go home and watch cheesy Christmas movies. While it's true to say that Christmas festivities did come at the time of solstice etc, there's a whole lot more joining up of the two early on than is often allowed for. St Nicholas was a bishop who liked being generous.

Anyway, to the OP, yeah you can get them in lots of places. If we want to talk about misinformation though, I should point out regarding the three kings that they weren't kings, they were unlikely three, and they weren't necessarily all men. Oh, and Jesus wasn't born in a stable, but hey, it makes a nice nativity scene.

Let's just indulge in some joy together as humans :)

Your point about needing atheists in homeless shelters etc - I'd agree if I didn't have so much experience of the Christians I know who really don't go with any other expectation than to help, to feed the hungry, to bring some joy. Our church always put on a Christmas dinner for those who are homeless or just lonely and without family, and there are no strings, just lots of crackers and fairy lights. Same with the vast majority of churches who do these things.

@Ellen888

Mrs T-P

"It's the two month nonsense around it when people get their knickers in a twist about what atheists do or don't do."

Where on earth do you get that idea from?!

Although, I am also sick of hearing carols being played in shops from October to Christmas Eve.

There are threads on mumsnet every year with Christians being outraged at atheists daring to celebrate Christmas.

Bookstores and charity shops - they do lovely cards.

depresmenil,

"There are threads on mumsnet every year with Christians being outraged at atheists daring to celebrate Christmas."

Really?

I haven't seen them, nor have I any interest in reading them.

And it is no reason to have a pop at me over what others do.

You can usually get some with at least a cartoon nativity on. I mean, they had them in Aldo at the weekend for 99p for a pack of 25 with a little nativity scene on the front.

If you want the kind with bible verses then I know my local church usually sells those

Aldi even, not Aldo

@mustlovegin

I don't understand how a Christmas card can be non-religious

Christmas cards are a Victorian invention and actually had very little to do with religion at the beginning. It was more likely to have skeletons or sugar plums dancing around a feast or robins on a bush. They were just greetings cards sent instead of the lengthy Letters. A quicker way to send Christmas greetings for less money than a long length of paper written out however many times.

This is an illustration of what some of the earliest Christmas cards had on them!

www.history.com/news/victorian-christmas-cards

@QueenofKattegat

I would also love to know more about the cat that eats children!

My favourite Christmas song! The Christmas cat will eat children who don't get any new clothes for Christmas, i.e. the children from the poorest families. Helping the poor so that the Christmas cat can't eat their children will bring us joy at Christmas. A nice message and doesn't mention Jesus at all.

In recent years they have a big model of the Christmas cat downtown during Advent, it's become a bit of a tradition to take children into town to see the cat.

A Christmas card is by its very nature religious. Who is it celebrating? Christ. The clue is in the name.

@EishetChayil

A Christmas card is by its very nature religious. Who is it celebrating? Christ. The clue is in the name.

Speak for yourself, when I send a card with a snowman on it I'm not celebrating Christ.

@EishetChayil

A Christmas card is by its very nature religious. Who is it celebrating? Christ. The clue is in the name.

Sure, the same way as Easter is celebrating the goddess Oestre.

I've been to countries where their Christmas celebrations are fairly similar to the ones in the UK but their name for Christmas actually translates to Yule. Are atheists allowed to celebrate that?

@Cryalot2

Surely Christmas is about the birth of Christ. I don't know of any church that sells anything . Most are places of worship. Online is a good place . The faith mission tends to sell such .

Pre COVID most of the churches near me had stalls inside selling charity Christmas cards.

@beautifullymad

This year there are hardly any proper packs of Christian Christmas cards. I looked with my mum who always sends nativity cards. We looked hard. The only place we could find doing them and we got the last pack on the shelf was WHSmiths.

Paperchase had some.

[quote MrsTerryPratchett][/quote]
That's lovely, thanks for sharing ☺️

@Ellen888 I didn't ask for suggestions of what we COULD do, I'm capable of thinking about it. I asked what some of the complaining Christians WANTED us to do. Because there's a general feeling with some on here (and in the world) that 'atheists want to cancel Christmas, but they won't say Merry Christmas, but they're not allowed to enjoy it, but they must celebrate, but it's not for them, but they have to because it's cultural, but they can't because it's hypocritical' that goes on. It's exhausting and confusing.

I much prefer @Madhairday's idea that we can pick the bits that work for us and not fuss about the rest. I mean who cares if I send robin cards but say Merry Christmas but object to two months of bloody Christmas in shops?

And yes @Ajl46 that typifies the feeling of Christmas for me. Family, time and togetherness.

I've been to countries where their Christmas celebrations are fairly similar to the ones in the UK but their name for Christmas actually translates to Yule. Are atheists allowed to celebrate that?

We are in the UK. Try to go about chanting 'Happy Yule' and people will think you've lost your marbles or you're having a twatty fit

@mustlovegin

I've been to countries where their Christmas celebrations are fairly similar to the ones in the UK but their name for Christmas actually translates to Yule. Are atheists allowed to celebrate that?

We are in the UK. Try to go about chanting 'Happy Yule' and people will think you've lost your marbles or you're having a twatty fit

You're in the UK.

And I was asking if atheists are allowed (according to you) to celebrate Christmas/Joulu/Jol in those countries where the name is different.

Although it's interesting that you think that people who celebrate a different winter festival to you or call it by a different name must be having a "twatty fit", but you whinge about people "making fun" of Christians. But then you do have form.

I like the Bethlehem ones with the Star and the town and the three wise men. The charity for hospices have lovely ones with gold and strong colours. My friend who is a Hindu loves them.She is a religious person but she sends Xmas cards too. She maintains that goodwill towards all people
is the basis of true religion.

Try to go about chanting 'Happy Yule' and people will think you've lost your marbles or you're having a twatty fit

The more I see this sort of thread, the more I start to like the bland, hopefully universally inoffensive 'Happy Holidays' ubiquitous among my US colleagues and friends.
Do you have any objection to that, or 'happy solstice' on the relevant day?

Basically the Christian festivals just replaced existing ones anyway, so it's not a big deal to have general holiday cards

@EishetChayil

A Christmas card is by its very nature religious. Who is it celebrating? Christ. The clue is in the name.

Err. It's really not.

Mrs T P,
I'm afraid I can't answer your question as I'm not one of those 'complaining Christians' you mention, so may I suggest you ask one of them.

Personally I'm not interested in what members of other faiths do at Christmas.

As I said, I'm thoroughly sick of the Christmas run-up starting in October, and I don't think I'm alone there.