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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do you remember Heather Mills?

609 replies

LucilleBluth · 28/11/2021 18:52

I have been watching the Beatles documentary and got to thinking about her.

She was in the papers constantly in the 2000s, I remember her being painted as an absolute con artist witch. I googled a few articles about her from the time of the divorce. They are brutal in the misogynistic tone, she’s labelled as a slag, a goer, ex prostitute, you name it.

I don’t think papers write about women in such hash terms anymore. Maybe she was a bit of a twat, whoever married Saint Paul would have suffered at that time I think.

I suppose by AIBU is are the press less misogynistic.

OP posts:
CPL593H · 02/12/2021 18:13

I don't give any credence to Kenneth "Aleister Crowley wannabe" Anger and Lennon's actual murderer backing each other up about anything, I'm afraid.

I remember that time very well (as an adult) and JL appeared to be a great deal more sorted than he had been at times, Double Fantasy was a good album and he was out and about, interacting with fans (strangely, he was always v decent with them for such a tricky character) and seemed to find joy in Sean. OK, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors but he certainly wasn't presenting as being unwell/having a death wish or anything close. He'd seen Ringo a few weeks earlier and he found it/him very positive, too.

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 18:14

@TomPinch - I absolutely agree with that. These were sick, sick people, and that sickness was caused by a combination of obscene wealth, gullibility, boredom and drugs.

Also, they were surrounded by some very dubious people, and he at least was too weak and too helpless to prevent them taking advantage of him. Brian Epstein had protected John by keeping him away from dangerous people like this. When Brian died, there was no one to provide that protection. I think Paul tried, but he was public enemy number one as far as Yoko was concerned - to be kept away from John at all costs.

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 18:18

So you don’t give any credence to actual events that happened @CPL593H. You prefer your own instincts, which are based on, what? John meeting Ringo? Talking to fans? Releasing an album?

What has any of that got to do with it?

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 18:25

Other than that his final weeks were spent selling that image he wanted everyone to believe, of course.

The Ballard was a fantasy, @CPL593H. None of it was real. He even sang about that, over and over.

The truth is, that John Lennon in his final days was a mess. Look at him - he was skeletal:

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/john-lennons-last-photo-shoot-251278

CPL593H · 02/12/2021 18:29

Well, all the things I mentioned actually happened and I think indicate a state of mind that was rather healthier and more in control than you are implying.

Also, Kenneth Anger is no ones idea of a reliable and truthful witness/narrator and neither for that matter is Mark Chapman.

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 18:34

Do you think both Anger and Chapman both just made up a story about meeting in Hawaii, @CPL593H?

Why would they do that? It doesn’t make any sense?

And why was Anger at the crime scene? Was that just random event?

Sorry - but no one is that fucking gullible. Apart from John Lennon, perhaps, but even he had a motive to be the most legendary rock star in the history of time.

CPL593H · 02/12/2021 18:39

Just wanted to point out that the fabled Norman Rockwell painting was actually a lithograph that Chapman sold for $7500, not the Mona Lisa. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that even MC had such a thing legitimately.

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 18:49

Right, because the odds are really strong that Chapman would have an interest in art.

I believe he sold a Salvador Dali as well. Any yes, it’s really fucking unlikely that he would have these things lying around his house.

And oh, I forgot another small detail. He’d been on a round the world trip IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION a couple of years before.

For anyone who knows anything about John and Yoko, Yoko also sent John on a trip in a Westerly direction round about the same time.

Anyone who can’t see this for what it is is stupid frankly. They weren’t even clever about it. Obviously the internet had not been invented, so it didn’t seem likely that anyone would twig. Also, Beatles fans tend to be a bit black and white in their outlook. Years of propaganda will do that to you.

Toomanyscentedcandles · 02/12/2021 19:20

@EYProvider

You sound very angry and aggressive. Why is this such a personal issue for you?

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 19:38

Thanks for the concern, @Toomanyscentedcandles, but I don’t understand why you would even bother to write a comment like that. My anger is not really relevant, is it? Nor is it of any interest to anyone, I’m sure.

EYProvider · 02/12/2021 19:46

Mind you, I don’t know if you could even describe my reaction to the comment that Chapman having a Norman Rockwell lying around his house is not that unbelievable really.

Anger doesn’t quite describe it. Incredulity, maybe. Anger, no.

Toomanyscentedcandles · 02/12/2021 20:00

@EYProvider

Thanks for the concern, *@Toomanyscentedcandles*, but I don’t understand why you would even bother to write a comment like that. My anger is not really relevant, is it? Nor is it of any interest to anyone, I’m sure.
I wouldn’t be asking if I wasn’t interested, would I?
FlowerFlour · 02/12/2021 20:02

This thread has been a real wild ride, I never knew what was coming next.

TheBoots · 02/12/2021 20:08

Jesus tapdancing Christ. What a ride.

PinkyPromises · 02/12/2021 20:21

@TheBoots

Jesus tapdancing Christ. What a ride.
Surely it's 'John Lennon' tap dancing Christ Wink
EYProvider · 02/12/2021 20:33

Well, I’m sure it was more interesting than sleeping patterns and toxic mothers, @FlowerFlour. Not to mention kids with ASD.

Grendalsmum · 02/12/2021 20:51

Theboots No, no, no ... He's working down the chippy with the guy who swears he's Elvis Grin

Sparklingbrook · 02/12/2021 20:59

@EYProvider

Well, I’m sure it was more interesting than sleeping patterns and toxic mothers, *@FlowerFlour*. Not to mention kids with ASD.
What is the matter with those discussion topics on a parenting chat forum? Confused They make more sense for discussions than a heated debate about what John Lennon was up to (on a thread about Heather Mills) IMO.
EYProvider · 02/12/2021 21:06

@Sparklingbrook - Well I did say that to you further up the thread when you recommended that I post it on Reddit, but then changed your mind and told me to start another thread. Lol.

Sparklingbrook · 02/12/2021 21:07

[quote EYProvider]@Sparklingbrook - Well I did say that to you further up the thread when you recommended that I post it on Reddit, but then changed your mind and told me to start another thread. Lol.[/quote]
You did indeed. You did neither. Lol

EmeraldShamrock · 02/12/2021 21:27

Well, I’m sure it was more interesting than sleeping patterns and toxic mothers, @FlowerFlour. Not to mention kids with ASD.
No it really isn't.
Reading obessive comments about men when the thread was about HM not PM or JL.
The thread was hijacked.

CPL593H · 02/12/2021 21:28

Before I bow out completely (and apologies to OP my part in derailing this thread) MC borrowed money from family members (his mother and his father in law) to buy the Norman Rockwell and the Salvador Dali (which he sold for $5000) He was clearly spending well beyond his means but he purchased them.

I remembered reading years ago that he had these and sort of what they were and checked. I may well be gullible/stupid and whatever else has been levelled at me but I do know the difference between a lithograph and a painting and the corresponding variation in price.

regularbutnamechangedd · 02/12/2021 21:29

@CPL593H

Just wanted to point out that the fabled Norman Rockwell painting was actually a lithograph that Chapman sold for $7500, not the Mona Lisa. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that even MC had such a thing legitimately.
Yeah but @EYProvider isn't interested in that fact, just unsubstantiated Reddit conspiracy nonsense.
regularbutnamechangedd · 02/12/2021 21:31

@EmeraldShamrock

Well, I’m sure it was more interesting than sleeping patterns and toxic mothers, *@FlowerFlour*. Not to mention kids with ASD. No it really isn't. Reading obessive comments about men when the thread was about HM not PM or JL. The thread was hijacked.
There is no way on this entire earth that PMc would've allowed Yoko to get away with murder, absolutely none. If there was even a tiny grain of truth in the conspiracy theories they would have been investigated to bits, and you bet billionaire Paul, who marches against gun laws in the states even now because they killed his best friend, would have thrown everything he had at investigating those avenues.
EYProvider · 02/12/2021 22:13

Let’s face it, @regularbutnamechangedd, Paul hates Yoko. He might tolerate her these days for the sake of his business and because he feels sorry for Sean, and she is basically infirm now (bet she still outlives him by one day out of sheer spite, mind you), but there is no love lost between them.

I agree he would go after her if it was that straightforward. But as John obviously knew, why would he want his legacy trashed?

Sorry, @CPL593H, but I cannot believe that anyone could be so naive. You seriously believe that Mark David Chapman collected Norman Rockwell and Salvador Dali art? I can understand Yoko believing that because what does she know about the real world, but anyone else? Wow, just wow.