To think there are some strange views on "Class" on MN?

[Flapjacker48]

It is undeniable that there is still a class system in the UK. There seems be some odd ideas about it on MN. This is inspired by the recent thread about Christmas decorations.

1.) Possessing a certain item or not is a huge class indicator (rubbish)

2.) That obtaining (or not) certain standards of education defines, or indeed changes your class (again rubbish)

3.) That class is defined by income alone, the "I earn x so I'm middle class!" type views

Does anyone really think that money defines class? Would you say a aristocratic widow who has lost all her money/house is now working class? Or that Wayne and Coleen Rooney are upper middle class due to income?

4.) The view that your interests somehow make you a certain class. Saying, for example, "I'm working class, but have middle class tastes like radio 4, theatre etc" thus (offensively) implying that working class people could never have such interests....

I would completely agree although they’re very ‘county set’ so there’s a whole set of etiquette rules that are unspoken but understood!! The whole thing is madness to be honest but in a country house, you would remove your outer garments (never shoes though!) before meeting the owners of the house. I mean it’s total bollocks really now.

Can we all agree that anyone who uses the term baby daddy or baby momma is usually lower socio economic class?

@LouKelly

I really couldn't give half a hoot . I have people in my family who are millionaires and some are on benefits , we all get together and get rat arsed a few times a year and the puke of the millionaires is indistinguishable from the puke of the unemployed .

Money does not equal class

I don’t understand class and I don’t care to. It’s just another way to keep people hostile towards one another.

That is just the same as white people who say they don't see colour.

@Bobsyer

I don’t understand class and I don’t care to. It’s just another way to keep people hostile towards one another.

Sounds like you have some understanding...

Class is just another manifestation of the British obsession with finding ways to hate each other.

Yes that's definitely specific to Britain

I remember coming back from uni and seeing people from school, many had gone into entry level jobs and had no ambition to do anything more than stay in those and spend their pay cheque as soon as they were paid.

Would you listen to yourself, honestly with every post you spout more rubbish. If people have no ambition (I had none myself) and wish to spend their pay cheque as soon as they were paid so what? It doesn't make them lesser beings. I'm also pretty sure you will find people in the so called "middle class" who don't save money, or go to uni. This is why I am so glad I don't live in the UK, people here are far less judgemental and generally mix together without making idiotic statements such as this.

A lot of 18 and 19-year-olds who go to university are not at all ambitious, just doing what is expected of them.
And of course someone in a low paid job spends their pay cheque, that's what happens when you don't earn much.

Theirs so many Sally’s (coronation street) on mn

@Cloakedmerry what does that mean?

Married to mechanics?

@julieca

That is just the same as white people who say they don't see colour.

Are you addressing me with that quote? If so, please do elaborate.

@DrSbaitso I understand how it manifests but I don’t know if I’m working class or middle class or if my mum or dad are WC or MC because I don’t get the distinctions. And it’s not important enough to me to give my entire family background to learn more.

@Bobsyer

Depends on behaviour, upbringing and life style choices imo.

E.g. using the word nan, saying tea instead of dinner, spending disposable income on alcohol/cigarettes instead of saving, going on holiday to Magaluf.

Likewise youre probably middle class if you're always trying to one-up your relatives and neighbours, or wanting the latest number plate .

[quote julieca]@BeaMends and the debt thing. Getting into debt for a washing machine is cheaper than going to the laundrette every week. And I did go to the laundrette every week for a while, very expensive. The suggestion was that middle-class people would wash their clothes in a bath while they saved up for a washing machine. Frankly, I don't believe it. Maybe for a few weeks, but no more than that.
My mum washed all her family washing in the bath for a few years. It took her a whole day to wash and dry them. It is hard physical work that no one with any choice at all would do.[/quote]
I'm confused. I didn't mention or comment on anything about getting into debt or washing, so I'm not sure why you've tagged me?

I know someone who asked her husband if they were working class, and he said no - he's a sales rep, she's a cleaner, and they live in a modest house on a reather rough estate.

I'm working class, proud of it

@lazylinguist

Class is just another manifestation of the British obsession with finding ways to hate each other.

Yes that's definitely specific to Britain

Where did I claim it was?

Stick your

I was taught years ago at school

If you have to work to pay for the roof over your head and the food on your table then you're working class

If you don't have to work and you live off investments then you're middle class

If your income comes from investments your ancestors made then you're upper class

But that doesn't allow for people who live on benefits who presumably aren't even working class 🤷‍♀️

Too many people think they're middle or upper class when they're really not. Hence the belief that Boris is their mate and just like them. He's not.

Surely hardly anyone lives off investments?

Too many people think they're middle or upper class when they're really not. Hence the belief that Boris is their mate and just like them. He's not

What's his background though? Has he passed the 3rd generation rule or not? Maybe he is 'just like them' after all

Saying that class doesn't exist in this country is akin to saying the UK isn't racist/doesn't see race - people seem to think that saying this makes them the good guys. In fact it's very often an indicator that they are white, middle class people who are uncomfortable acknowledging their privelige.

IMO class absolutely does exist in this country and it is primarily a cultural thing but of course still very much tied up with wealth - so I would agree that 2 and 3 are rubbish - class isn't automatically conferred by educational attainment and it is not immediately or automatically determined by income, though both can happen. 1 and 4 certainly have elements of truth to them of course owning a particular item or having a particular interest doesn't automatically determine your class but it can be a pretty good indicator. I say this as a very upper middle class person (nearly) married to a proudly working class person who is certainly becoming more middle class by virtue of how we live - lots to grapple with and lots to make people uncomfortable. That doesn't mean it isn't real

I say this as a very upper middle class person (nearly) married to a proudly working class person who is certainly becoming more middle class by virtue of how we live

How do you know you are not the one 'who is certainly becoming more working class by virtue of how you live'?

The lefty vibes you are giving off are suspect and 'very upper middle class' circles will certainly not look at you favourably

@BettyBag

Holy fuck this thread is offensive.

It's horrible, isn't it?

@julieca

Surely hardly anyone lives off investments?

Yes, I don't think the categories you were taught make sense @happinessischocolate. Anyone who doesn't need to work and lives off investments that they made during their own lifetime (not inherited from ancestors) has somehow managed to make a huge amount of money pretty quick, and is probably a borderline criminal. Or a hustler. At best a very successful tradesman. Certainly not someone from whom Nice Ladies would accept an invitation to the opera 😆