To think there are some strange views on "Class" on MN?

[Flapjacker48]

It is undeniable that there is still a class system in the UK. There seems be some odd ideas about it on MN. This is inspired by the recent thread about Christmas decorations.

1.) Possessing a certain item or not is a huge class indicator (rubbish)

2.) That obtaining (or not) certain standards of education defines, or indeed changes your class (again rubbish)

3.) That class is defined by income alone, the "I earn x so I'm middle class!" type views

Does anyone really think that money defines class? Would you say a aristocratic widow who has lost all her money/house is now working class? Or that Wayne and Coleen Rooney are upper middle class due to income?

4.) The view that your interests somehow make you a certain class. Saying, for example, "I'm working class, but have middle class tastes like radio 4, theatre etc" thus (offensively) implying that working class people could never have such interests....

What I do think knocks you down the ‘class’ system is talking about how much you earn, the value of your home, and how ‘successful’ you and your family have been. 👀

GaladrielHiggins some studies are showing that unless you are deep routed in a middle class background, first generation social.mobity parents are finding that many of their dc are not remaning socially mobile. Its parents background a few generation back that indicates future not university. Google .. the end of aspiration re social mobility.

I think its fascinating.
My current circumstances are working class. I am downwardly mobile from where my parents ended up ( from firmly working class progressing just into the middle class by luck of intelligence and hard work)
In a sense, my parents were perhaps an anomaly in what has been a working class family line for generations.

Jibberjabberhutt but discussing such things is not at all a middle class thing to do . 🤣🤣 its having to prove somerhing to talk about stuff like that.. that is not middle class thing to do at all.

I think only middle class people who are desperate to be upper middle class are actually arsed about this.

I'm working class. Always will be. Happy and proud of my roots. I try to be the best version of me wherever possible. I try to be considerate, sympathetic and patient as much as possible and try to help out my friends and family as much as I can. What more can we do in life? Who cares whether you do it with no disposable income, or swimming in cash?

I feel sorry for people who aspire to climb the social class ladder. Kind of Hyacinth Bucket types. All fur coat and no knickers really. It's a shame when people aren't happy with their lot.

Which is bigger? Your TV or bookcase?

@Jibberjabberhutt

I have American family who are quite fascinated by the class system that was/is in place here. For them, the more money you have, the higher up the hierarchy you clearly fall. They cannot understand that our class system is much more nuanced and hard to articulate.

It’s not, despite what some may believe, defined by whether you consider a ‘live, laugh, love’ decal delightful or déclassé.

In America class has always seemed to be defined financially, but thay is beginning to change now, with attitude and outlook becoming a factor as well, although still a minor one compared to income (eg. a high earning redneck is still a redneck, someone who went to an Ivy League college but works a middle management job is better regarded than others in middle management jobs, people who have travelled, wider cultural outlook etc.).

In the UK our class has had an element of wealth, but displays of material wealth are seen as tacky, where as continued learning, education (not always formal), wider knowledge, attitude etc. are more significant.

@DrSbaitso

Thread is gold already.

Anyone remember the one from a few months ago with the woman informing us that the girls who attended the local state comp were uglier than the ones who went to the fee-paying private school?

😱

It’s so interesting though isn’t it?

Dp would consider himself to be working class because of his upbringing. My parents had ‘middle class’ attitudes and outlooks, although we were less well off than a lot of families, especially when I was a small child.

DP and I are on a lower than average income. We have 1 child but couldn’t afford a second. I have a degree but work in a shop. We live in the north, but I have an RP accent that is considered ‘posh’. What’s my class?

(I am not bashing the North 🙂 it’s great here, beautiful landscape, friendly people. Just stating a fact about how people perceive the way I speak).

Not sure there are any strange views from a majority of MNers. The only people obsessed about class are the ones like yourself who start these threads.

@Mondaymindy

Jibberjabberhutt but discussing such things is not at all a middle class thing to do . 🤣🤣 its having to prove somerhing to talk about stuff like that.. that is not middle class thing to do at all.

I always find it mental when posters shoehorn their own perceived social/class standing into a thread they’ve started. It’s weird isn’t it? They tell us all about their education (private, red brick, halfway through PhD ) and I never know if it’s because they feel the need to validate themselves, they’re lying, they’re trying to preempt any thread nastiness or they truly think it’s relevant. Which is almost never is.

DHs family think we are posh because we use garlic and buy European cheese.

@Chosenonetosurvivethenight

Which is bigger? Your TV or bookcase?

Bookcase of course darling, also remember the books should have been read, if they are all pristine and unread (eg no creases on spines or dust jackets) then that is even worse than not having them in the first place.

I always understood social class to be defined by occupation. So to be MC required a traditional profession such as teaching, medicine, law etc, and that certain values and lifestyles became synonymous with social class. However it has become increasingly blurry now income and class are no longer linked, enabling people in WC occupations to afford lifestyles that were once only open to the MC. Easier access to information, education and experiences have also broken down barriers as people from different classes are more aware now of what is available outside of their own communities, and so make wider choices. Outside of self definition, I think class has lost a lot of its meaning.

What does define each class?

People rabbit on about mn being obsessed by class. People are obsessed by class, they possibly just don’t talk about it in real life.

@AuntieMarys

DHs family think we are posh because we use garlic and buy European cheese.

This kind of reverse snobbery is something I just can't get my head around.

FindingMeno

I find it very interesting too. My df had a middle management job in a pit. We were seen as posh. My df didnt care. He saved and got a good house. Again we sewn as ' posh' .. not at all. I Went to uni due to his aspirations, as did my dc.. who are now distincty downwardly mobile .. it seems their position is less secure without a line of old family support behind them . I can see the difference in the level.of support, us newly less establishedsocially mobile and parents can give them cf to more established family give them ( for eg they both now have 20k student dept wereas many of their peers had fees paid). I can see them not havingnthe choices and appear more downwardly mobile due to lack of longevity.

@Chosenonetosurvivethenight

Which is bigger? Your TV or bookcase?

You have a TV? head tilt

MN is obsessed with class in a way I've never experienced in real life

That one object in your home can indicate you are working class and that this would be a bad thing. And whoever doesn't have that object is better purely for the reason that they aren't showing themselves to be a lower class.

In real life I think most people are just living their lives, class obviously still exists but its not really relevant day to day unless you are proper aristocracy, and I think most people I know would find it bizarre to care so much about what class you are perceived as.

I have no idea what class I am, on one hand I do a middle class job and my family have been in middle class jobs for a couple generations. But I probably would buy that washing machine on credit if I needed one as I do a lot of handwashing and have never made a penny from it!

Found it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4050103-what-makes-someone-look-rich-wealthy?pg=9

Brilliant thread. So much "oh, the ghastly nouveau riche are so showy and crass with their hideous designer labels and flashy cars, give me the whispering wealth old money with their understated country mansions and private educations" etc.

Class threads on MN often mix up socioeconomic class and cultural stereotypes.

I was always aware that class was part of our culture. In my middle school there were a
few girls who went off to private school after. I remember going to a few houses and they were just so different from my rich uncles and aunties houses. I felt
Very sorry for my friends who were not allowed to watch tv until later (that was after I went home)

But it really didn’t hit home until ds went to prep school. It’s a different culture to what I am used to and my friend and I often laugh about not really fitting in

@Mondaymindy I wonder how often this happens.
Probably more than we'd think.

Income might not make you MC but it does protect you from a lot of what life throws at you. I've found that it makes people less understanding of the issues being on the breadline can cause.
What I found interesting was that most 'first black'/female...' came from wealth. So class did override colour, sex and disability.
What I find incredible is that many MC posters seem to think that lower WC people have no joy in their lives, which is why some put their Christmas decorations up early. They think that a life on nmw is one of complete drugery. I see more unhappiness in the MC people who I mix and work with than I do my peer group and neighbours, in a deprived bit of Liverpool.
I'm second generation immigrant and have no class roots to draw from and find the snobbery ridiculous.

@Mondaymindy Surely you don't actually believe all of that shite in your first post????