AIBU to think there is nowhere women can feel truly safe

[30whatacrock]

Reported in the news today is a woman who was sexually assaulted as a child and raped as an adult by males. She has been accessing group support to help her deal with her trauma.

In walks a male in male clothing who identified as being female. This person didn’t say anything or join in with any discussion but just sat there. The woman, who was upset at this, explained to the organiser how uncomfortable she felt having a male there, only to be told that he had every right and that they don’t police gender.

This is despite the group also running sessions for trans and non binary people. It just makes me wonder if there is any area that women can go, which is for females only, whether it be changing rooms, toilets, or counselling sessions.

In case anyone wanted to contact them to give them a dose of reality. ;)

@TarasCrazyTiara

Was this actually a woman’s group or a group for survivors of sexual abuse which didn’t specify sex?

Also was it a natural man or a woman who was trans into a man?

I believe it was a womens group. It was a man who identified as female but was clearly doing nothing to appear female. Dressed as a male but said he was female.

As Helleofabore said, we are currently having to push hard and there is so much policy based on lies and inaccuracies.
So many genuinely believe gender identity is protected because that is what TRAs are saying, the EA2010 has been twisted and manipulated but it very clearly states gender reassignment is a protected characteristic NOT identity. I’ve had many disputes online about this lie that is being spread

Increasingly I wonder will these groups have to move into private homes where women can presumably at least deny entry to whoever they want. Of course it cuts them off from funding then, leaving more for the men including the ones who wear frocks.

The whole issue of unqualified therapists generally needs clamped down on but then watch how quickly Stonewall etc will begin targeting therapeutic training organisations like BACP and NCS.

Group therapy for sex offending men has been stopped in prisons because it made offenders more likely to reoffend afterwards by providing them with a space to talk about and share their sick fantasies about raping women and children.

It is utterly abhorrent that these creeps can now step that up a notch by attending survivors' groups to hear directly from the victims all about their experiences. It makes me feel sick to imagine their glee.

I'm not saying the individual that Sarah encountered was a sex offender getting his jollies, but I'm not saying that wasnt the case either. This is precisely why many women are against self-ID, there's nothing to stop creeps abusing it (there are already plenty of them who claim to be trans when they go to prison in the hopes of a transfer to the women's estate).

MrsColon, that is awful . I had no idea that groups of male rapists actually offended more after group therapy .

Do you have any links to any articles on this?

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/30/sex-offenders-on-group-treatment-programme-more-likely-to-reoffend

This is such an upsetting story. Is there any service for female rape survivors now that is women-only, no males allowed? If there is one time in life where a woman needs to be in a woman-only space, it is when she is discussing her experience of rape and violence at the hands of a man.

But we cannot allow women even this much women-only space. There is NO situation where it's considered to be necessary to keep males out. Not a rape support group, a refuge, a prison cell, or even a school changing room.

Meanwhile, the men who use that service have a men-only group. The trans people have a trans group. It's only women who are not allowed to have our own space, with just each other. Not only not allowed, but called bigots for wanting that. The injustice is stunning.

I am glad that this thread remains in AIBU with an active poll, showing 95% 'YANBU' for feeling this way, OP.

I'm sick of it. Utterly disgusted that the people running this service allowed a man to sit a listen to survivors' stories just because he said he wanted to and what he decided he was entitled to. That's what self-identity is - men doing whatever the fuck it is they want to do.

This service would have had the backing of the law and the vast majority of women if it had done the right, ethical, moral thing and said 'No' to him.

But the fear of the TRA activists is too great. It's like a new terror has descended.

I've been meeting other feminist women in my living room since September, as this is a model I remember from back in the late 70s / early 1980s as a young woman. We'll have to rebuild from the ground up if necessary, but it will happen.

@HereticFanjo

Increasingly I wonder will these groups have to move into private homes where women can presumably at least deny entry to whoever they want. Of course it cuts them off from funding then, leaving more for the men including the ones who wear frocks.

The whole issue of unqualified therapists generally needs clamped down on but then watch how quickly Stonewall etc will begin targeting therapeutic training organisations like BACP and NCS.

But the issue will be, as with lesbian groups, they will have to form under the radar, unlisted, reliant on word of mouth and will not be able to openly use or access help from trained therapeutic professionals except those who are also acting under the radar, because of political capture.

We are back to the suffragette days of secret meetings in hidden rooms where lay people try to help because the funded, vaunted, wonderful, professional womens services now meet the needs of males, but not females. Insanity. And caused by males for the benefit of males, who cannot tolerate any service existing for women that is not male centric and politically obedient. This belief is open that it is better for a woman victim of rape to be left without help or treatment rather than permit her to disobey male centric politics.

Sexist to the core.

@DrudgeJedd

Has this thread been moved back? It's showing in aibu for me. There is a thread about this in fwr, 'Sarah' (not her real name) from the article is actually posting on the thread if anyone would like to head over there and give her some support

Here's the other thread where the actual woman from the article is posting; www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4412984-A-woman-driven-out-of-her-therapy-group-by-a-trans-womans-presence?pg=1

‘This belief is open that it is better for a woman victim of rape to be left without help or treatment rather than permit her to disobey male centric politics.’

OUTRAGEOUS. Yes I think a lot of us are very very very sick of this shit.

@PumpkinGin

MrsColon, that is awful . I had no idea that groups of male rapists actually offended more after group therapy .

Do you have any links to any articles on this?

There was a thread about this last weekend, or it evolved into one. It was about men with pedophilic thoughts who had not yet offended.

Some very passionate posters wanting more group therapy for them weren't easily persuaded by such studies.

It's appalling. Women in desperate need of support are ignored and the doors are opened wide to male predators. This trans woman may have been in need of support but their needs should not trump those of everyone else in the group. A truly evil act and an evil response by the chief exec of this charity

So no one has come on yet to complain about the 'transphobia' yet?

I had no idea that rapists were more likely to offend after group therapy. That is awful

I feel so sorry for the poor woman in this article. She so badly needed support and she was unable to access it.

@PumpkinGin

MrsColon, that is awful . I had no idea that groups of male rapists actually offended more after group therapy .

Do you have any links to any articles on this?

Yes and paedophiles too we had two on the same housing estate they knew each other through therapy sessions and were housed close to each other (right by Three schools and a park which was delightful) not only did they manage to go largely undetected in the community (people assumed they were a closeted couple) but when they "slipped up" (there words) they vandalised each others property and even gave each other cuts and bruises and told the probation service they had been attacked so they could move

The system is a flawed

I don’t think most people have any idea that this where bekind/enforced pronouns ends up

The moment we’re asked to accept men are women than there are no boundaries & nothing that is women only

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

So no one has come on yet to complain about the 'transphobia' yet?

I want to know who the 5% are that think this is ok. They appear to be silent.

It's the same when the subject of women being raped in the female prison estate by convicted sex offenders who are transwomen comes up on these boards (if you are not aware, the MOJ admitted this is happening in a recent judicial review). The usual posters who are quick to scream 'transphobe!' on just about every subject go very quiet on that subject.

They tried to silence the whole of MN, and Justine Roberts took a very bold decision at the time (prior to the Forstater appeal judgement) to allow - admittedly fettered - freedom of expression.

Whatever you think of the fettering, this was a very significant decision.

And "I am Sarah" has been able to post today on Mumsnet, which I hope is helping her. She deserves better than what happened to her at that "women's service".

@ClaudiaJ1

In case anyone wanted to contact them to give them a dose of reality. ;)

Is your deleted post the email of this survivor group so posters can complain? (I didn’t see it in time).

If so then I’m sure if posters pm @IamSarah she will pass you the email so posters can email a complaint. If they have 100s/1000s of MN posters complaining on top of @IamSarah bravery at press exposure maybe it can make a dent in the #bekind.

Is it worth complaining to the charity commission @IamSarah ? If a charity isn’t fulfilling it’s charitable aims then complaints should be aimed to them I think.

So no one has come on yet to complain about the 'transphobia' yet?

Of course not, this is indefensible. To come on MN and defend it would open people's eyes and the narrative would change from, "be kind, they just want to pee", to " they really don't give a shit about women, do they, as long as they get their own way".

And people might realise THIS ↓ is the truth.

I don’t think most people have any idea that this where bekind/enforced pronouns ends up

The moment we’re asked to accept men are women than there are no boundaries & nothing that is women only

Anything less than refusing all males access to female spaces will be treated as a negotiation and this is where we end up.

I got deleted for stating that a person with a penis is, and always will be a male. How is that transphobic?! It's an actual fact.