AIBU to think there is nowhere women can feel truly safe

[30whatacrock]

Reported in the news today is a woman who was sexually assaulted as a child and raped as an adult by males. She has been accessing group support to help her deal with her trauma.

In walks a male in male clothing who identified as being female. This person didn’t say anything or join in with any discussion but just sat there. The woman, who was upset at this, explained to the organiser how uncomfortable she felt having a male there, only to be told that he had every right and that they don’t police gender.

This is despite the group also running sessions for trans and non binary people. It just makes me wonder if there is any area that women can go, which is for females only, whether it be changing rooms, toilets, or counselling sessions.

Oh dear.

Another one arriving onto the naughty step. OP, you have been moved to the Feminism board within the first page.

Welcome. Pull up and seat and report your thread to Ask for it to be moved back to AIBU. Soon they will remove the poll.

Unless threads can exist permanently on two boards now????

This is just awful.

Single sex exemptions exist and can be applied legally.

The group has chosen to validate males over helping the women.

And the male has the opportunity to go to a transnand non binary group and have and have help tailored to their situation but chooses not to use it.

This is why third spaces eveeyone touts as the solution aren't. Because its about validation. Using the women to affirm the identities of males akd ensuring women have no whwrebto go where men and males can't just follow them.in

Perhaps it's because most votes are female and our opinions don't matter

A clear example of women being used as props to validate the identity of transwomen. Repulsive.

The whole thing is very reminiscent of 'elf and safety'.

That is, the people perpetrating this crap, those who run these services, have poor reading comprehension and critical thinking skills, so gullibly or lazily swallow rumour and half-baked ideas and are getting all jobsworth and/or 'can't be bothered to rock the boat, about enforcing 'laws' that don't exist.

Wow has this thread made a new land speed record? Fastest thread to be banished to the naughty step.

The monitors really don't like these kinds of stories, do they? We can't possibly have more women finding out what's going on. Shame!

This is still showing in AIBU, as far as I can see?

Has the poll been removed?

She is very brave to come forward and report this.
The service is being funded by taxpayers.
We think that we are funding a service for women but it has been made unfit for purpose.
Why won’t they priorities women’s needs?

How much is too much?

This needs to stop.

Weird, this seems to be in two boards at once. What is going on?

@Beckert

A clear example of women being used as props to validate the identity of transwomen. Repulsive.

We don't even know that it was a 'transwoman' though. Outwardly male appearance, clothes. Could be an opportunistic man.

Who voted YABU? Could you even begin to explain why please?

I also agree that mumsnet need to leave these issues on the main boards rather than keep pushing it over to feminism.

arabella

It is in the state of flux before blowing away the poll and declaring it very naughty indeed for escaping the FWR board!!!!

I have asked for it to be moved back. I think those who support OP should. It is too important.

And the follow-up from my point about elf and safety and lazy thinking, is that what is required is a few high profile legal cases, to send down the message to the jobsworth classes, that single sex services are fine and sometimes right.

Wtaf with the thread moving. So this isn’t an important and wide reaching issue that could potentially affect all women at any time?

Glad to see this issue hitting the mainstream media though and Julie using it to hammer home the message about the dangers of self ID (which are already playing out).

What can we do? Are we caught in a bind because the legal protections are there (so can’t petition etc)? Is it just a case of writing to rape crisis organisations raising the issue?

Awaiting the TRA/LOJ et al response to this because every time one of these key issues gets raised in widespread media I think surely now they will have to concede etc and they just plumb new depths of misogyny.

@Helleofabore

arabella

It is in the state of flux before blowing away the poll and declaring it very naughty indeed for escaping the FWR board!!!!

I have asked for it to be moved back. I think those who support OP should. It is too important.

I agree. How come women on MN aren't allowed to discuss these things unless it's in a hushed corner of the site?

As I have posted on the comments,

Men have three spaces, mens groups, trans groups and women groups.

Women have no groups!!!

We don't even know that it was a 'transwoman' though.
Outwardly male appearance, clothes.
Could be an opportunistic man.

What's the difference? Men and transwomen are both born male. They may or may not wear women's clothing. It's impossible to tell the difference imo. Or even what we are looking for in order to tell.

Maybe MNHQ is working on ways for threads to have double listings and to straddle two topics?

Wouldn’t that be fab? FWR with polling capability!

What can we do? Are we caught in a bind because the legal protections are there (so can’t petition etc)? Is it just a case of writing to rape crisis organisations raising the issue?

Write to your MP(s), MSPs, councillors. And yes, write to rape crisis organisations is a good idea. Talk to people about what's happening. So many people aren't aware, and many more don't believe it's true.

It's labelled a 'moral panic', which is a subtle way of calling women raising the alarm 'hysterical'.

And before this disappears completely from AIBU, for anyone new to this discussion, the service (and some comments on the article) suggest that Sarah should set up her own service.

Services like domestic violence refuges and rape crisis centres were fought for, set up by and fundraised for by women. They are why these services exist. To suggest that women, who now cannot use the services set up for them because they are now mixed sex, is just really awful.

Was this actually a woman’s group or a group for survivors of sexual abuse which didn’t specify sex?

Also was it a natural man or a woman who was trans into a man?

@Beckert

We don't even know that it was a 'transwoman' though. Outwardly male appearance, clothes. Could be an opportunistic man.

What's the difference? Men and transwomen are both born male. They may or may not wear women's clothing. It's impossible to tell the difference imo. Or even what we are looking for in order to tell.

Real transwomen want to pass they don't show up as a man

I have some sympathy for real victims of gender dysmorphia they genuinely believe they are born in the wrong body but I have more sympathy for women

@Beckert

We don't even know that it was a 'transwoman' though. Outwardly male appearance, clothes. Could be an opportunistic man.

What's the difference? Men and transwomen are both born male. They may or may not wear women's clothing. It's impossible to tell the difference imo. Or even what we are looking for in order to tell.

Well, yes exactly. But the point is refuges and rape crisis centres have historically been single sex and yet have always had problems with boundary ignoring men(eg abusive ex partners)

This is leaving the door wide open to them. I wouldn't be surprised if abusers started attending their victims' groups to monitor what they say/inflict mental abuse.

Not that that's the case here, but there's nothing to stop that with this centre's policy.