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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not want to be an unmarried SAHM?

522 replies

EnglishMuffins · 27/11/2021 12:49

Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on my situation.

I was married for several years and had 2 DC with my exH. I had always worked part time to be around for our young DC in a general admin job. Upon divorce , exH stayed in marital home and bought me out of my share. I took some furniture, no savings (in fact debts that needing reconciling) and no claim to his pension as he said the pot was too small to even consider sharing it 50/50 after only a few years being married.
I lived with family as I couldn’t afford to buy or rent on my PT salary, and we share custody of our DC 50/50.

Fast forward a couple of years and I met DP. He was also a divorcee. Their split was amicable, no DC involved. We bought a house together about 18 months into our relationship and soon after we unexpectedly fell pg (I said unexpectedly as there are fertility issues on both sides but a blessing all the same and we were delighted).
When our child was born we decided I would give up my job to be a full time SAHM. We also needed a bigger house so sold up and moved , but this time my name was no longer on the mortgage as my lack of income decreased our borrowing prospects. So my initial lump sum I invested into our first property (from my divorce settlement) which had also grown as property prices went up in value and the mortgage was paid off (I might add that for 18 months I contributed towards the mortgage and bills) is now tied up in a house that is in DP sole name. I feel naive but he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”.

My issue is, I really thought that by now, DP would have proposed marriage. He’s not dead set against it, but he says things like “don’t do it!!” When we drive past weddings and things , and I just generally get the feeling he doesn’t see a second marriage in his future. Our child is almost 2, ive given up on my job, a career, paying into a pension, independence , I sold my little car.. have no savings or means to save , am solely reliant on DP wages . Meanwhile he is climbing the career ladder, paying into a pension, accruing savings and saving what I imagine would be a vast monthly sum in childcare costs.
AIBU to expect him to marry me? I just feel I’m in a vulnerable position, with nothing to fall back on. I want a secure future for my child and my DC from my previous marriage. I would even like to share a name with DP and our child and I guess rubber seal our family unit? So both financially, and romantically, I’d like to be married - but DP has no interest . Then part of me feels like a gold-digger for thinking he should marry me and give up 50:50 if we were to split.

What are the legal implications of not being married vs being married?
DP has a will, I don’t. DP has insurance through work that would pay off the mortgage - I guess this would be taxed? I have life insurance. No savings and a tiny pension from my PT job.

OP posts:
dcthatsme · 28/11/2021 19:09

There is a problem here that you are the main daytime carer for the child you have with your DP and therefore your earning capacity is much reduced or non-existent. This isn't fair as your contribution to the family finances may not be recognised. You may not be in a position to pay a mortgage but you are making it possible for your DP to earn more as he doesn't have to pay childcare costs, take time off work if his child is poorly etc etc. This is recognised in law if you are married but I'm not sure it is if you are not married. You really need to get clarity from CAB or a lawyer.

ClaudiaJ1 · 28/11/2021 19:24

OP your last update is chilling. It truly is. It shows your partner still doesn't get it. Tell him you want him to marry you (and by a certain date, or he'll say 'yes' just to shut you up, demand it, even in registry office) or you're leaving. If he loves you he will do anything to stop you leaving. The fact he won't marry you and won't put you on the deeds means he either doesn't get it or simply doesn't care. His attitude in your post would cause me to lose love and respect for him. If he leaves you, you're fucked, even with the 'ring fence'. Because you've then got no home.

Demand you both go to the Registry office, or you'll walk. Tell him 'it's as simple as that'.

UniversalAunt · 28/11/2021 19:28

‘ but he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”.’

The Hell you do!

Get yourself to a solicitor now for advice on where you stand. You will have a record somewhere of transferring the monies to him.

You are responsible for your financial independence.
Wise up.
Make financial decisions on the grounds that you rely on no-one else’s goodwill, call upon a notional form of trust or vague promises.
It be a long haul - as it is for most people - to establish financial security in your own name, but every day that you make sound decisions based upon your future financial independence move you forward.

Are you skilling up for your return to work?
Are you saving just a little bit to keep the habit going?

Get advice soon

CrimbleCrumble1 · 28/11/2021 19:29

I would concentrate I on

  1. Getting my names on the deeds
  2. Getting a job and making sure DP pays towards childcare.
  3. Protecting the 25k (as a percentage) oh house value.
rwalker · 28/11/2021 19:32

Ring fence your deposit and get back to work. He's paying mortgage bills and supporting you and your 2 DC in return you pick up his 1/2 off your DC's childcare . Unsure why people think he's taking advantage .

UniversalAunt · 28/11/2021 19:36

‘He has no interest’ in marriage - then take him at his word & actions speak louder than words. Right now, why should he marry when he’s doing so well & you are doing so much for him.

He has a will? Have you seen it? Do you have a copy? He can change the wording of his will any time he pleases. Being married does not guarantee that you will automatically inherit from his estate, just gives you grounds to contest if you think the distribution is unfair.

Get legal advice about how you may get your contribution to the shared house purchase legally recognised & how you can assert your rights to that share.

Poppychild · 28/11/2021 19:39

I think you can put the house in joint names even if the mortgage is just in his name. Maybe explain how vulnerable you feel and ways to help with that?

DroopyClematis · 28/11/2021 19:42

The cynic in me is wondering why you're wondering about your assets upon splitting up.

However, these are different times. Did you actually hand over £25k when you moved in together?

You decided to be a SAHM . You cannot just expect your husband to find you . You've lost out on pension contributions.

That your current partner is wanting to remain on the mortgage, in his own name is worrying, particularly as he said that you should base this 'on trust'

You need to consult a solicitor. However, once you do this, your relationship with your partner might suffer.

Huge red flags here.

Pinotpleasure · 28/11/2021 19:44

@EnglishMuffins - I feel so sad for you that your partner has no interest (at this time) in marrying you.

Do you think he would be more amenable to having a “Civil Partnership”? Explain to him that if he were say, in a bad car accident and the hospital needed to contact his ‘next of kin’ - then you would not be able to make any decisions and it would be his parents or siblings. (This applies to you too, in the same scenario).

A Civil Partnership also conveys property and pension rights to both parties. Before last year only same sex couples could have a CP, but heterosexual couples can now also enter a Civil Partnership. AFAIK one can also later choose to get married: Elton John and David Furnish had a CP and later got married when it was legalized for same sex couples.

I hope your partner will consider doing this. There’s lots of information online but do check on www.gov.uk as the regulations may differ between England, Wales and Scotland.

UniversalAunt · 28/11/2021 19:45

@EnglishMuffins just caught up on your last post.

Good news that he’s accepted your points.
Better still, get that appointment booked for the two of you to sort out the legalities of your financial contribution to the family home. Set a date to book it e.g. make appointment by 1stDecember, to open up the case file with the solicitor before Christmas.

A bit like going to the dentist - set deadlines to complete each step 😉

Actions speak louder than words.

calvados · 28/11/2021 19:49

You can add your name to the mortgage. It will cost a bit but will be worth it. Explain to your partner why you want to do this. If he has an issue with the cost then you will have to demand that you sell the property and buy a new property with both your names on. The choice is his. Very unwise to buy without your name on it. But You can rectify it now.

Wingingit15 · 28/11/2021 19:59

Good that you’ve talked to dp, OP.
I do wonder how many of the pps exclaiming how awful it is that dp won’t consider marriage have gone through divorce: me having done so - no way ever again, it made a mockery of marriage and I just don’t see the point

Graphista · 28/11/2021 20:10

He can't explain it to you as the real reason is because a divorce would be very expensive for him.

I agree

It's not that he CAN'T it's that he won't because that will show his true colours

Also agree the £25 k is not good enough - how much had the house appreciated and will the new house appreciate in the time until you get that back? You should get the interest accrued on that £25 k investment too

It's both frustrating and heartbreaking just how many women are still allowing themselves to be screwed over by men unwilling to properly and fully commit to their families

I wouldn't have had dc without being married first I was very clear about that, and I wouldn't have given up a job either and I didn't

Ex was army and even when we married and we could have managed on his salary alone I still insisted on getting a full time job of any kind ASAP.

I've seen the results of being too dependent on men financially in a variety of scenarios - not just separation/divorce - and I would never risk it! ESP with children to consider

It's NOT just if/when you split it's also if he becomes incapacitated (this is actually the most complex and expensive possibility) or dies (young fit healthy men DO die unfortunately, not often but it does happen and because people don't expect it to happen they are often very poorly prepared for it)

Wills and insurance are NOT guarantees if you aren't married, the deceased persons family of origin/blood relatives can and do step in and challenge these and are more often successful than people expect them to be

You need to look out for yourself and your dc op

Please don't do all the work at home if you go back to work. If he does not want to share his pension he can scrub his own pants.

Damn straight!

He also needs to take his fair share of days off for kids sick days and school holidays etc

With a partner who financially isn't contributing

Wow!

1 you mean aside from the £25k?!

2 she's saving HIM a bundle on childcare for THEIR child!

3 her work in the home is just as valuable as his outside the home

OP, why don't you make a list of what this arrangement is costing you in terms of lost salary and lost pension. This may help you to see your financial worth and what you are sacrificing here.

That's an excellent idea

I'm almost afraid to ask...do you have to go begging for "extras" money wise op?

Does he decide what is an acceptable amount to be spent on you and dc?

Question (that you needn't answer here but I think need to consider) how does he view his divorce settlement and is he accurate? Or is he bitter about it despite it being a fair or even unfair result for his ex?

@Thehouseofmarvels my mum had a friend who lived with a chap for over 30 years, unmarried, he never bothered getting around to divorcing his ex and neither did the ex, when he died intestate (don't even get me started on the stupidity of a man in his 70's and a homeowner not having a will!) the house (which mums friend had contributed to in terms of maintenance and repairs and decor etc over the years by simply giving him the money to do so) went to his ex in its entirety and mums friend was unceremoniously turfed out of her home

She had been wrongly under the impression there was such a thing as common law marriage she even had in her head that living together 10+ years was the cut off point (no idea where she got this idea!)

She also lost savings that were in an account in his name it was a mess! In total she effectively lost £750,000 worth of assets!

The myth of common law marriage and associated benefits and rights must be debunked and refuted.

On a similar thread a pp said that they wished girls were taught in school how vulnerable they are of unmarried Sahm, other posters argued "boys aren't taught this" well clearly boys/men ARE learning from somewhere it's a "bad idea" to marry, to expose themselves financially by doing so

Personally I think such information SHOULD be a part of financial education which SHOULD be part of maths education

Londoncallingme · 28/11/2021 20:10

Get proper legal advice and discuss your fears with him. He didn’t intend to divorce when he got married so he knows these things can happen - you need to talk to him and find a solution.
Or…you propose.

thepeopleversuswork · 28/11/2021 20:13

@Wingingit15

Good that you’ve talked to dp, OP. I do wonder how many of the pps exclaiming how awful it is that dp won’t consider marriage have gone through divorce: me having done so - no way ever again, it made a mockery of marriage and I just don’t see the point
It’s not the fact he won’t consider marriage per se: it’s the fact that he’s expecting her to make all the sacrifices a non working parent would make as part of a partnership while also handing over her money without any legal protection.

If he didn’t want to marry her he shouldn’t be expecting her to hand her cash over to him and then stop working to look after their kid so he can focus on his career.

He’s having his cake and eating it.

Catsstillrock · 28/11/2021 20:25

OP. Ignore the posters telling you to issue and ultimatum about marriage now. It might work, but it conflates several issues.

But, both to get some financial protection for yourself now, and bottom out what’s going on in your relationship on will you / won’t you marry later.

Yes marriage would sort out your future financial situation. But if you issue an ultimatum, he refuses and you break up, you are screwed financially. It’s a tactical mistake. Don’t do it.

Instead, go with what’s on the table for now and make the best of it. Get legal and financial advice. Push him for what is morally right and fair financially. So yes to you being added to the deeds. Probably also to a statement of what share of the equity of this house is yours, unless he agrees it should be 50/50 (which I think you have an argument for. You brought in 25k equity, yes he pays the mortgage but you do all the childcare and home stuff).

If he doesn’t agree to that. You should get a share of the equity proportional to the equity you originally put in to the first house you bought together.

You said you put in 25k. What did he put in? Let’s say it was 50k. Then your legal agreement that says the equity in this house and any other house you own is split on a 1:2 ratio if and when you sell. Even if he pays off the whole mortgage and sell in 10 years for £1m. Your share is the proportion of the equity (deposit) you originally put in.

But. Like I said, he sounds sensible on this, as he should be if he cares for you. So ask for name on the deeds and 50/50 split first to reflect the unpaid work and loss of your future savings by being a SAHP.

Marriage. It’s not as black and white as ‘if he loves you he’ll do it’. Especially not as he’s been married before.

If that’s important to you, revisit it after you’ve got your finances in order, with all the legal paperwork in place. Issue an ultimatum THEN if you want to, as, if you do end up leaving you’ll be financially on a better place.

FWIW I had two children with my them DP unmarried. We also did not draw up paperwork (though meant to). However this worked in my favour as I was wide awake to all
This.

When we bought we were going to put in similar equity and would have had a 50/50 share. However we bought something smaller and cheaper for the location so my equity wasn’t needed. DP stated off suggesting he did it all in his name and I rent from him. I refused this. Even though my equity was still invested elsewhere. I explained I would never choose to rent at this point in life. So my name went on the deeds and mortgage. We verbally agreed my share would be the proportion of the value of the property that I covered in my mortgage share (I’ve always worked so I pay my share of the mortgage). We meant to make this a legal document but never finished it. So if we’d broken up in the first ten years I could have taken half the value of the house, not just my share, and kept my own investments.

We got married a couple of years ago. Financially I’m not sure it makes much odds to me tbh.

He was reluctant for a few reasons- he didn’t want a big day but his parents expected one. By the time we did it he’d gained the confidence to do it his way.

He also came to understand the social status, not just financial security matters to women.

I felt the judgement from society of not being married, even though I think that judgement is bullshit.

Lastly, once you’ve got your financial stuff sorted with legal agreements, think about going back to work. And not to something low paid that fits around the kids, but something that has long term earning potential and career progression. Whether you stay together or split up, your life / lives will be not just richer but freer if you earn decently.

Good luck

NightfeedsandNetflix · 28/11/2021 20:32

Everyone going on like the man committed a crime, they wanted to upgrade their house? It wasn't possible to do that with OP on the mortgage? I've had to do similar as I have other property so my borrowing power was stretched too thin. Unless DP manipulated or orchestrated this situation what has he done wrong? If OP didn't want to move she didn't have to.

Don't worry there are things you can do, get a charge put on the house. If he tries to sell it, it will be flagged there is an issue which would need resolving before any sale could complete and if it went to court if he wasn't giving you anything you can present your argument.

Second draw up a deed of trust. This is less hostile and is more likely not to push your DP away as everyone is going on like he is definitely about to dump you and leave you rotting penniless in the gutter.

Third worse case scenario as you have a child together and no job or income of your own, if he ever tried to throw you out you could get a residency order for quite a while to protect you and your child allowing you to stay in the house while alternatives are sought.

His WILL I'm sure will have provision for the child, if not if anything happens to him you will be able to claim for money for the upkeep of DC against his estate.

For me 2 years of being a stay at home mum doesn't entitle you to everything this man has ever earned or a chunk of his money for the rest of your life (pension, insurance payouts). Obviously your entitlement should increase by the number of years you remain unemployed to raise DC.

As for everyone talking about deeds I'm pretty sure you can't just rock up and have your name put on?! The bank and him own the house. The bank won't allow your name to be put on as that means the house has a 3 way ownership and if DP defaulted how would the bank recover money from you? People have names on deeds jointly when they are named jointly on the mortgage or any recoverable debt is still possible despite another's vested financial interest. I could be wrong but I am pretty confident you cant just have names added to deeds as you please.

Has DP shown signs he is going to screw you over? Why the panic now two years on?

I would look into "common law wife" legislations see if that offers any comfort.

I would also look to go back to work. Share the childcare and two years out from work although a set back isn't going to ruin your career prospects for the rest of your life.

As for marriage the vibe I'm getting is you mainly want it for financial security and rights? Yet your upset he doesn't seem interested in marriage lol. Therefore have a chat with him and explain you feel vulnerable and you need something for you and DC seeing as though you are in the compromised position? If you can't have that chat then how is marrying someone like that the solution? I would then explore the deed of trust route ASAP.

NightfeedsandNetflix · 28/11/2021 20:33

[quote RedRobin100]@Aprilx. Do lenders generally allow names on deeds that aren’t also on mortgage? I’m not so sure.. My assumption is she isn’t on either.[/quote]
That's my first thought, a lot of people seem misinformed about how deeds work.

VladmirsPoutine · 28/11/2021 20:35

My god!! You need legal advice pronto. If he decides he no longer wants to be in a relationship he's sitting pretty with or without you.

thepeopleversuswork · 28/11/2021 20:35

On a similar thread a pp said that they wished girls were taught in school how vulnerable they are of unmarried Sahm, other posters argued "boys aren't taught this" well clearly boys/men ARE learning from somewhere it's a "bad idea" to marry, to expose themselves financially by doing so

It's really striking and shocking to me in this day and age how little girls in particular get taught about what marriage is really about. Their brains get clouded with this miasma of nonsense about romance and "commitment" without grasping that above all its financial insurance. It makes me wonder what they are learning from their parents and what their parents are telling them about cohabitation and marriage and bringing children up.

Boys may instinctively realise they have a lot more to lose, maybe they've observed their parents behaviour or maybe because they tend to be more practical and less imaginative they don't get swept up in the whole Disney nonsense. But it is quite striking that they suss this out in a way girls often don't.

I really think we need a campaign of education to teach women what is at stake if they shack up with someone and bear his kids without some legal protection.

theremustonlybeone · 28/11/2021 20:36

All i can say after your update is get back to work, speak to a solicitor about the money you freely handed over to your boyfriend for his new home

DrSbaitso · 28/11/2021 20:38

I would look into "common law wife" legislations see if that offers any comfort.

Oh God.

Marvellousmadness · 28/11/2021 20:40

Shit op :(...

NightfeedsandNetflix · 28/11/2021 20:40

@vivainsomnia

Get a FT job. You pay half the childcare each. Stop being so passive This! Marriage is what people do when they are both ready. If he isn't, then you just have to support yourself.

At the moment, he is supporting your joint child but also the 2 children who are not his.

You need to go to work FT and make it clear that childcare is to be shared as are pick up and drop off, evening routines and housework.

Literally no recognition that he is supporting two other kids not his. Hardly a dragon in my books. Does the OP want to work?
ClaudiaJ1 · 28/11/2021 20:43

There is no such thing as "common law marriage" in the UK @NightfeedsandNetflix .

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