AIBU to not want to be an unmarried SAHM?

[EnglishMuffins]

Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on my situation.

I was married for several years and had 2 DC with my exH. I had always worked part time to be around for our young DC in a general admin job. Upon divorce , exH stayed in marital home and bought me out of my share. I took some furniture, no savings (in fact debts that needing reconciling) and no claim to his pension as he said the pot was too small to even consider sharing it 50/50 after only a few years being married.
I lived with family as I couldn’t afford to buy or rent on my PT salary, and we share custody of our DC 50/50.

Fast forward a couple of years and I met DP. He was also a divorcee. Their split was amicable, no DC involved. We bought a house together about 18 months into our relationship and soon after we unexpectedly fell pg (I said unexpectedly as there are fertility issues on both sides but a blessing all the same and we were delighted).
When our child was born we decided I would give up my job to be a full time SAHM. We also needed a bigger house so sold up and moved , but this time my name was no longer on the mortgage as my lack of income decreased our borrowing prospects. So my initial lump sum I invested into our first property (from my divorce settlement) which had also grown as property prices went up in value and the mortgage was paid off (I might add that for 18 months I contributed towards the mortgage and bills) is now tied up in a house that is in DP sole name. I feel naive but he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”.

My issue is, I really thought that by now, DP would have proposed marriage. He’s not dead set against it, but he says things like “don’t do it!!” When we drive past weddings and things , and I just generally get the feeling he doesn’t see a second marriage in his future. Our child is almost 2, ive given up on my job, a career, paying into a pension, independence , I sold my little car.. have no savings or means to save , am solely reliant on DP wages . Meanwhile he is climbing the career ladder, paying into a pension, accruing savings and saving what I imagine would be a vast monthly sum in childcare costs.
AIBU to expect him to marry me? I just feel I’m in a vulnerable position, with nothing to fall back on. I want a secure future for my child and my DC from my previous marriage. I would even like to share a name with DP and our child and I guess rubber seal our family unit? So both financially, and romantically, I’d like to be married - but DP has no interest . Then part of me feels like a gold-digger for thinking he should marry me and give up 50:50 if we were to split.

What are the legal implications of not being married vs being married?
DP has a will, I don’t. DP has insurance through work that would pay off the mortgage - I guess this would be taxed? I have life insurance. No savings and a tiny pension from my PT job.

@blusteredbirds

She didn’t “lose” her job though and he didn’t force her out of it - she chose to leave it to be a SAHM They agreed it. She thought they would get married at some point. Its not like he said, ' well, become a SAHM if you want but I'm not marrying you so you will be in a precarious position if we split up'. I am sure he was delighted to have a SAHW to make his life easier without any of the obligations to the women who made his life easier once they split. Talk about win/win for him!

Why should he “be shafted” if OP leaves him? Which could happen, stats say it is likely she will and especially being a second marriage the likelyhood only increases. Why are you Ok with him being shafted but not with OP?
Its about what is fair. That's the whole point of divorces. They are an attempt, if imperfect, to allocate assets fairly. OP will be helping him to concentrate on his job/ build his career. give him a bloody nice and easy life, and if it goes tits up he has retained all the benefits of that whereas she has nothing. A man having a child with a woman but keeping himself obligation free from her, and 'agreeing' she should give up her job to look after his child, is not a good man.

(when I talked about shafted, I was talking about how he is clearly seeing it, not as I see it)

Well I’ve no idea why she thought they’d be married, it’s not like he proposed and they were engaged.

It’s irrelevant if he’s a good man or not. The op is a grown woman and needs to take personal responsibility. She’s given up everything, literally everything, she’s even given him her divorce settlement,, she gave up her job, she’s given up her pension, the lot. She has nothing, literally nothing.

These are choices she unbelievably made. They are not his fault. Everyone knows th risks you face as a homeless jobless unemployed adult with no pension and no savings, the op chose this route for herself, willingly.

The problem is that if they were to split up then her being a stay at home mum does have precisely zero value. She will have no savings. No pension. No car. No salary to rent or buy a house. No claim on his house, or saving, or pension or car.

She will be financially screwed with 3 kids to house and support and all the joy of being a stay at home mother will mean the sum total of fuck all.

Haven’t RTWT so sorry if this has been answered. When I met my husband he had a property which we lived in briefly before we bought together. When he remortgaged during this period, I had to sign documentation indicating that I had no claim on the house, despite living there. I was neither on the dates nor the mortgage, just residing there.

Do you recall seeing a form like this? If not, it would suggest that your husband did not make the lender aware of you at the time of the application, and I’m curious about that given some of the deposit came from you. If he intentionally did this, I imagine that would be considered mortgage fraud.
If you were presented with this form, and signed it, then that’s probably obviously problematic for you now.
Its a tricky position to be in, I hope it gets resolved for you.

@Jessie75 English law must be very different to Scottish law then. Here it doesn’t matter whose name is on the deeds or mortgage, if you are married and live there together it’s ‘the marital home’ and will be split in a divorce.

@blusteredbirds

What you think of divorce law doesn’t matter. He has been through it and doesn’t see it as fair - hence why he doesn’t want to do it again. This isn’t his first marriage, who knows what he has payed or has to pay (or split pension) in the future to his ex wife, then there is the chance he pays CM.

If OP chooses to leave him he will be paying all that all over again to another woman which will likely be very hard and leave him with little, or at least keep his nose to the work grindstone out of need for the rest of his life.

OP knows this, he knows this, this isn’t his first marriage and he may not be able to afford a second divorce or simply not want one (which is very understandable) - you are suggesting she take on the attitude of a first wife and basically ignore this huge factor in why he wouldn’t marry. I am suggesting she realise this is his reality and if she can empathise with that try to set things up money wise so that she will at least be protected somewhat if they split (house on deed etc.) and if she can accept that do it. As I don’t think he’s unreasonable at all not wanting to marry her.

If the law was different and fault was taken into account and she would get her half and more if he upped and ditched her and he would the same if she ditched him - then I’d question why he wouldn’t marry her and think it was shady. But as it is I get it, he’s had one divorce, another may ruin him, to ask him to tie up his life in the possibility someone else doesn’t leave him is asking him to put a gun in someone else hand and trust they don’t pull the trigger if it’s their only way out of the relationship.

But as it is I get it, he’s had one divorce, another may ruin him, to ask him to tie up his life in the possibility someone else doesn’t leave him is asking him to put a gun in someone else hand and trust they don’t pull the trigger if it’s their only way out of the relationship.

Except that in this not at all ludicrous analogy, it's the man who has the gun that OP is trusting him not to fire.

The issue isn’t really with him, it’s with her. She’s not protected her savings or her career. She’s chosen to give him all her money, stop working, sell her car with zero protection. I totally get why he might not want to marry again but it’s HER responsibility to not be stupid and to protect herself financially. Getting a job should be a priority along with protecting her share of the deposit. As it stands, he can change the locks and she’s left with 3 kids and nothing else.
Don’t rely on marriage, keep your own financial independence.

It drives me insane that so many women willing give this up with zero protection.

[quote Lucifersleeps]@Jessie75 English law must be very different to Scottish law then. Here it doesn’t matter whose name is on the deeds or mortgage, if you are married and live there together it’s ‘the marital home’ and will be split in a divorce.[/quote]
My understanding is that it's the same in English law. My XH and I owned several properties which were only in my name (no mortgages, but I was the only person named on the deeds). They went into the pot along with everything else. That was (here I go again...) because we were married, not cohabiting.

In theory you’re right unless they’re able to sell it before it gets to court and then obviously it can’t be unsold, where is if your name is on the mortgage two signatures are required to go ahead and dispose of the assets don’t get me wrong you’ll get a nice court order telling him to give you the money back can you can imagine how much chance you’ve got of getting it.

But as it is I get it, he’s had one divorce, another may ruin him, to ask him to tie up his life in the possibility someone else doesn’t leave him is asking him to put a gun in someone else hand and trust they don’t pull the trigger if it’s their only way out of the relationship.

But he's quite happy for his partner and the mother of his child to be completely dependent on him and to give up any financial independence of her own, though. He's already "tied up his life" with the OP by having a child with her -- that ship has sailed. And it presumably suits him for her to be at home and looking after his kid so he doesn't have to. Meanwhile he's happily squirrelled away £25k of her money without making any attempt to ringfence that money or protect it for the OP's benefit.

You're painting him as a wronged man when in fact all the evidence suggests that he's systematically taken all the OP's financial independence away from her and then refusing to put in any basic protections for her.

I can understand him being reluctant to marry again, for sure, but he can't have it both ways. He can't get his partner pregnant and expect him to look after his kid full time, therefore depriving her of any financial autonomy, and then refuse to put any contractual protection in place for her assets and refuse to marry her.

I wouldn't be a SAHM if I wasn't married (unless you have private income).

I'm not even going to bother to rtft here. That's because I am a matrimonial lawyer.

It's not sensible to ask unqualified strangers about matrimonial law. Emotional issues, yes, but not legal ones. You ABSOLUTELY NEED to book a session with a matrimonial finance lawyer just to consult on what your arrangements actually mean as a matter of law. Then you can turn back to the relationship issues from a baseline of real knowledge about your financial rights and obligations.

Yes it will cost you a couple of hundred but yes it will also put you in control of that part of your life relating to many thousands of pounds worth of assets and security. Not only in relation to the house but also maintenance and inheritance issues.

There is a danger here that just as you trusted your and your child's finances to someone else without discussing it properly first, so you are now turning to unqualified strangers for technical advice which is beyond their sphere of expertise.

You really need to take control of your own economic life by making more active and focussed choices. Your child needs you to get across this.

Good news op, get the ball rolling Monday to ring fence your money and set up an agreement for the remaining equity should you split.

You do sound like a gold digger I’m afraid. I understand you want to stay at home and look after your child so why don’t you start a business from home/online business etc so you can make your own income while working from home. Then you aren’t fully reliant on him. Also get your house on the deeds or leave his ass if you want marriage and he doesn’t.

Also get yourself a car and regain your life and freedom!!

At minimum your name should be on the deeds of the house, if something happens to your partner you will have no claim to the house.

Your position as unmarried partner and not on the house deeds is precarious, even if he died and left you everything you could be liable foe inheritance tax which may not apply if married However you ought to get your name on the house deeds as you contributed towards the purchase with your share of the equity. You need to resolve the situation asap

But he's quite happy for his partner and the mother of his child to be completely dependent on him and to give up any financial independence of her own, though. He's already "tied up his life" with the OP by having a child with her -- that ship has sailed. And it presumably suits him for her to be at home and looking after his kid so he doesn't have to. Meanwhile he's happily squirrelled away £25k of her money without making any attempt to ringfence that money or protect it for the OP's benefit

Sure, but you know she’s a grown up, right and ultimately it was her choice. So he was quite happy for her to do as she pleases and support her during it, sure he did. The issue is she chose this, he didn’t force her.

And now she needs to stop focusing on marriage and what she can get him to give her and start focusing on getting back into employment .

It’s irrelevant if he’s a good man or not. The op is a grown woman and needs to take personal responsibility. She’s given up everything, literally everything, she’s even given him her divorce settlement,, she gave up her job, she’s given up her pension, the lot. She has nothing, literally nothing. These are choices she unbelievably made. They are not his fault. Everyone knows th risks you face as a homeless jobless unemployed adult with no pension and no savings, the op chose this route for herself, willingly

I agree that OP needs to take responsibility to protect herself and presumably she has started to realise this herself as the marriage she expected has not happened, which is why she started this thread.

But that doesn't mean he is not morally responsible for actively being involved in creating a situation where the partner and mother of his child is in such a precarious situation. She did not do this by herself but in partnership and agreement with him. She perhaps assumed that being as he wanted her to become as SAHW too, that he was actually going to want her to be his wife with all the protections that brings.. It is, after all, and absolutely shitey thing to discuss with someone that they should, in practice, be a SAHW (which they did discuss and agree) and then have that happen but just miss out the legal wife bit so they have no financial security. So yes, the fact he is not a good man is relevant to the OP needing to realise this man cannot be relied on to be decent and she needs to secure her own financial situation.

He's taken advantage of her trust and love to create a situation that suits him very well but not her. And yes he is morally responsible for that.

Oh boy, sorry to break it to you but he knows exactly what he's doing.

Your basically free childcare for him at this point. While he progresses in his career.

Now he might marry you, but it's very unlikely because you've given him everything already without any commitment on his end. So why buy the cow if the milk is free? At this point you need to make a plan of how to start establishing financial independence from him. Get some qualifications, start a business or look at into going back to work, and earning your own money everything you make SAVE IT. Don't spend any of your money, continue to live off your partner but save everything you make for yourself. This is your insurance incase anything happens.

Hopefully he'll see how difficult it is to manage childcare with 2 working parents and having noone staying at home and that he'll just marry you, so you continue to can stay at home. But again if this doesn't happen just get your own income and save all of it away. Also speak to a lawyer about getting your name on the deed.

I am a SAHM with no income but my husband has always kept me on the mortage and the house deeds.
I think though you did not mention in your OP that he pays towards your two children from your first husband. That is worth something - has he spent more than £25k on them?

Can you prove that you paid anything towards the deposit? That does count in the event of splitting, but you need to get evidence. If you can, get proper legal advice.

The op is a grown woman and needs to take personal responsibility. She’s given up everything, literally everything, she’s even given him her divorce settlement,, she gave up her job, she’s given up her pension, the lot. She has nothing, literally nothing
These are choices she unbelievably made. They are not his fault. Everyone knows th risks you face as a homeless jobless unemployed adult with no pension and no savings, the op chose this route for herself, willingly

Exactly this, and incredibly, she seems to have bought the story that he genuinely didn't realise the financial position she's in

Good news about the "commitment" to put her on the deeds and ringfence her investment in the house though ... if it ever actually happens

I’m sorry OP, that’s incredibly tough and stressful. You need support and not ‘leave him’ rubbish - MN has incredibly black and white blinkers on this stuff. You’re doing all the right things getting legal advice. The other thing (someone has probably suggested - sorry only read part of thread) is to think through how you approach this with DP. It’s so important that he hears you and understands why this is an issue and something to work through together. I didn’t note the ages of your children but I would definitely consider getting a job.

I have a trust deed on my house. We have a joint mortgage but the deed states that if we sold, then I am entitled to xxx - the rest is shared between us. It stops me ever needing to save for another deposit (that was the point of it). We are married.

I have to say, never relying on someone else’s income (long term) would be in my top three life advice points for young people. It rarely ends well. It’s incredibly destructive. Sending you love and hope you can sort this x

You sound terribly trusting Op. Did you really agree not to take your share of your ex husbands pension pot solely on the basis that he told you it wasn’t worth splitting? Without getting any legal advice yourself? It’s always worth ensuring 100% of the marital assets are taken into consideration in a divorce and by persuading you to ignore his pension he may well have conned you out of a significant amount of money. He was probably paying into a pension far longer than he was paying into a mortgage with you and you weren’t just entitled to half the pension that accumulated during the marriage - the starting point would have been that you were entitled to half the entire pension pot.

I’m not saying this to upset you. It’s great you have met someone new and you have blended your families - but you do need to be a less trusting and look after your own children’s interests more; otherwise he could write a will, without your knowledge, leaving his entire estate to his own children and leaving you and your children destitute. It doesn’t matter how unlikely that is - you don’t gamble with the stability of your children.

Your ex sounds horrid.