I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

He didn’t recognise the oldest original language of the British isles ..

Pretty sure it’s the oldest original language in Europe.

No, that's Basque @NavigatingAdolescence

I get that on 2 fronts. 1. Because I have a Scottish accent and use Doric abs Scots words that English people in general don't understand. And 2. Because quite often when in Englandshire, I am travelling with Deaf friends and we use BSL. I have been asked to translate what we are saying so that the hearing people on the train know what we are speaking about... The argument is that my Deaf friends would ask me to interpret what the hearies are saying. No they don't because they are not interested. And no I won't interpret for hearies as it is a "private" conversation. If they want to know, learn BSL! Or Welsh or Urdu or Polish. Just stop being rude and ignorant.

@Pumperthepumper

Whether it's in his head or not, what I believe or not isn't what I was trying to put across, just simply that you can get an impression of something purely because a change of language is applied. Is it the right impression? Who knows? It just feels awkward and rude when you're talking to someone then they start talking in another language knowing full well that other people who were originally part of the conversation don't understand the language you've switched to.

[quote Harmonypuss]@Pumperthepumper

Whether it's in his head or not, what I believe or not isn't what I was trying to put across, just simply that you can get an impression of something purely because a change of language is applied. Is it the right impression? Who knows? It just feels awkward and rude when you're talking to someone then they start talking in another language knowing full well that other people who were originally part of the conversation don't understand the language you've switched to.[/quote]
But the man was not part of any conversation?

They had been speaking together in English, it's rude to then switch languages in my and many other pp's opinions.

@Harmonypuss

They had been speaking together in English, it's rude to then switch languages in my and many other pp's opinions.

They hadn't, they spoke to the conductor in English. They then spoke to each other in their first language. At least have the facts straight before you accuse people of being rude. Otherwise it's pretty rude!

We have a family language amd we totally realise people find it rude to be excluded

I generally find social interactions like this hard anyway… you’re talking to someone amd having fun banter but now want to go back to your book or call or friend … nice to segue in. Or accept people will be offended
But not blame them for their feelings which you were part of

@Harmonypuss

My son lives in a shared house (of 11 people) in Hull and until recently 2 other residents were Welsh. I will add that these 2 people did not know each other before moving into this house, so there's no pre- existing friendship here. Regularly, any number of them would be chatting away in English (in the house or the pub) and suddenly the 2 Welsh speakers would break off and chat in Welsh (sometimes laughing) whilst still looking at their other housemates, then after a minute or 10, they'd switch back to English and include everyone else in the conversation. My son tells of this happening when he's been out for a drink with just one of them and the other has come along, butted into their conversation and they've then ignored him chuntering on in Welsh. It's rude and clearly gives off an air of "we don't want you to know what we're talking about and yes, we probably are talking (and laughing) about you but you'll never know for sure, ha ha". It's horribly being that person who's effectively being snubbed. I think it might be a bit different if people are already talking in their native tongue and stop for a couple of minutes to include someone who doesn't speak it, then when that person walks away, to continue in their native language, I don't think that's rude.

Re the first situation, I’m wondering if whether I was in a group in which there were two, say French speakers and they kept having private convos in French, I’m not sure I would be. I’d still have the other people to talk to and I honestly would not care if they were talking about me.

The second situation, yes that is rude.

Another anecdote - I was once in the toilets at the Acropolis and heard two Chinese women speaking English to each other. Clearly neither could understand the other’s language even though they came from the same country but both could speak English. The rest of the world is so linguistically diverse compared to the UK.

I'm Welsh but from the South so I speak English first language and I get the reverse of this when I hit the Welsh speaking North 😂

Unrhyw un arall wedi bod yn siarad Cymraeg yn Gaer heddiw?! (Anybody else been speaking Welsh in Chester today?)

Os ydych yn mynd i greu post Cymraeg, fuasech yn medru ysgrifennu yn gywir, os gwelwch yn dda?

yng Nghaer nid yn Gaer

What you posted translated as 'Anyone else been speaking Welsh in Fortress today?'

English people don't even like "foreigners talking foreign" in their native countries, let alone in England!

@Goglais I included a translation!!!

China is more linguistically diverse than the UK - indeed it is.

Population of China 1.4billion Population of UK 68million
Population of Europe under 750 million

Size of China Over 9 million (9,000,000) square km
Size of Europe around 10 million sq km
Size of UK 240,000 sq km -

China is nearly 40 times as big as the UK and nearer the size of Europe -which is linguistically diverse.

@FiHefyd

Unrhyw un arall wedi bod yn siarad Cymraeg yn Gaer heddiw?! (Anybody else been speaking Welsh in Chester today?)

A bit difficult when all of the trains were cancelled today.

We drove, heard quite a few speaking Welsh as we usually do if we're there on a Saturday.

@Harmonypuss

They had been speaking together in English, it's rude to then switch languages in my and many other pp's opinions.

And?? The guy in question wasn’t part of their group. They were not talking to him. Why should they carry on speaking English so he can listen to a private conversation?

It’s completely different than if you are together in a group and two people decide to exclude others but using a different language. Whereas in this case, the guy was a stranger. Just a plain total stranger.

A bit difficult when all of the trains were cancelled today

Do you need a train to speak Welsh (or any other language) in Chester?

I also thought Caer was the Welsh name for Chester?

If I was in Germany and on a bus, I'd speak German to a friendly passenger and then when the conversation was over I would switch to speak English to my husband. OK it's slightly different as his German is lower than O level standard and most younger Germans speak fairly or very decent English, but anyway, I wouldn't continue speaking German for the benefit of the rest of the passengers.

So I can't see why people would expect Welsh speakers to be any different.

@TrishM80

English people don't even like "foreigners talking foreign" in their native countries, let alone in England!

rubbish

@ColinTheKoala Chester is called Caer in Welsh. The telling off was for mutating the word incorrectly. In should be written "yng Nghaer" but I used the less formal "yn Gaer" which is how we would say it informally.

I really hate the narrative that England is an awful Country with awful people. It really isn't. Thats why people are risking life and death to by pass France to get here. We are a very diverse and hospitable country.

Its actually a great country with great people.

I have family in Wales (Welshpool) and the anti British sentiment is strong there. They have lived there over 25 years and still get ignored/short shrift in pubs ect. but I don't class the whole of Wales as a hostile place. Wales is a beautiful place with lovely people.

@Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

Why switch? Because I was having a chat with my friend in our native language??? Should we do it in English so that strangers on a train in Birminham don't think we're talking about them. Really

I was in a pub in a town on the East Coast with a German friend and we spoke her language as we sat down and looked at the menu. She understands English but isn't that confident speaking it. When the waitress brought our food, I of course thanked her in English and commented of how quick the service had been. My friend and I then switched back to German.

The looks we got from the locals. There seems to be this feeling that if you can speak English, you should do so - regardless for your preference for other languages.

You say hostile but what do you mean by that? It sounds to me like you are looking for a problem here. Unless the person was aggressive or rude your account of this doesn’t really make sense. However, I honestly think switching languages is rude to be honest which might have been the problem. It’s the equivalent of whispering around someone. I speak French as first language but have lived in England since I was a child so I have a native English accent. However when speaking with family I’d never ever just switch from English to French in front of someone I was just speaking English to. It’s just rude. I think this might be your social faux pas here.

And yes I think maybe there is a feeling that if you can speak English then you should... same as in any country. I’d never return to Belgium and switch to English in front of a French speaker. You just don’t do that.