I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

I’m amazed by how may people have said you were in the wrong for speaking to your friend…..I wonder how many of them have taken it upon themselves to speak another language. Chat away I love listening to people speak in other languages

Oh GOD people are so ignorant about Welsh!!
As someone says upthread - for bilingual people it's totally normal to switch back and forth, barely noticing which language you're speaking at that moment.
I speak Welsh with my DH and a number of friends. It would feel absolutely bizarre and awkward to me to speak English to him unless we were actually IN a conversation with someone else. We speak English if a monoglot friend or family member is around but certainly wouldn't keep speaking English just because we'd had a friendly exchange with a stranger!! Madness! We would of course finish the conversation politely and not just turn away and start chatting, but otherwise, come on! Chatting in a less comfortable language with someone you're close to just in case a stranger wanted to "join in"?!
Is it also rude to talk on the phone in your own language?

And the old as time "they all switched to welsh when we walked in" 😂😂
100% did not happen.

@Pumperthepumper

i have experienced many time exactly as said above, you walk into say a shop or pub and they are talking english, right to the point where you have to speak to someone and then they know your an english native speaker, to which they then speak in welsh! i find that incredably rude and warned my husband the first time we went to north wales many years back, he didnt believe me at first until he experienced it for himself

Who were they talking English to? And you say ‘say a shop or a pub’ which is it? Every shop and pub you went into in North Wales? And your husband can verify this very unlikely tale?

@Pumperthepumper a shop actually it was a news agents in denbigh and the pub was one in llanddulas cant remember the name but opposite the church yard. and yes he would verify all of this, however he doesnt bother to speak to those that are so dam rude such as yourself

anyway surely as you where travelling in england in the midlands then the right thing to have done was to continue speaking in english ep as you where also talking to the english bloke too it may have been a different matter if you had been in wales but even then i would have considered it very rude to blank the bloke the way you did

Really struggling to understand why Welsh speakers would be speaking English in a pub/shop until an English person appears, do English people really think Welsh is a language spoken exclusively to alienate them? Quite elaborate as a concept.

@Pumperthepumper a shop actually it was a news agents in denbigh and the pub was one in llanddulas cant remember the name but opposite the church yard. and yes he would verify all of this, however he doesnt bother to speak to those that are so dam rude such as yourself

Which one did your husband experience?

@takenforgrantednana

anyway surely as you where travelling in england in the midlands then the right thing to have done was to continue speaking in english ep as you where also talking to the english bloke too it may have been a different matter if you had been in wales but even then i would have considered it very rude to blank the bloke the way you did

Please. Rtft

They were not talking to him

At any point

And since when was it compulsory to speak the language of the country you're in?

Ok, I'm done. This thread is just confirming my worst suspicions

And... Mute

@Rosiesmydog Oh I fully believe the pub one, I've heard it multiple times myself and I'm not Welsh.

Well we didn't stay long as we felt uncomfortable, but as I originally said about 20% were already speaking English.

So only 20% of them switched to Welsh when they heard you speaking?

[quote WhenISnappedAndFarted]@Rosiesmydog Oh I fully believe the pub one, I've heard it multiple times myself and I'm not Welsh.[/quote]
I’ve heard it multiple times too and I’m not Welsh. It’s still bollocks.

@wonderstuff

Really struggling to understand why Welsh speakers would be speaking English in a pub/shop until an English person appears, do English people really think Welsh is a language spoken exclusively to alienate them? Quite elaborate as a concept.

I too have wondered many times since it happened to me, I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.

@Pumperthepumper

Well we didn't stay long as we felt uncomfortable, but as I originally said about 20% were already speaking English.

So only 20% of them switched to Welsh when they heard you speaking?

My apologies, I meant about 20% were already speaking Welsh, so 80% switched from English to Welsh. I said 90% were speaking English in my original post.

And you spoke to every single one of them to confirm this? It was literally all the people in the pub?

Were you showing off because you speak two languages as you were obviously studying peoples reactions

I have been wondering if this is behind a lot of the criticism since the reaction seems so ott. ‘This’ being some sort of envy or inferiority complex. The pp who mentioned using sign language and someone them complaining about them showing off shows this attitude in action nicely.

It's really just absolute nonsense, the "switching to Welsh" myth. I'm sorry, I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but you have just not understood bilingualism. We soeak both languages, we switch back and forth, depending who we are speaking to and what we're saying. Example, I'm in a pub. If I'm talking about something English on TV I might say "I bloody hate David Cameron!". Then I might turn to DH and ask in welsh if he wants another drink. Then I might shout over to my friend behind the bar to get us another drink, in Welsh. Then I might call out to my children in welsh and tell them to stop messing around, adding "Behave yourselves!" In English.
And English person who walked in at the beginning might think I'd "switched" but actually I'm just a bilingual person doing what's comfortable for me.

Where did I say it was done to slight me.

Kids mumble under their breath and when you speak more than one language it is easy to call your mother a bad word in a language she does not understand.

Am I offended by people who switch languages absolutely not - as my post said - my parent spoke 4 languages between them and we lived in a country where none of those was the native tongue.

However, I now live in England and speak in English but will answer the phone to my sister in what ever language I feel like infront of who ever. Very much mood dependent to be honest.

Am seriously not offended - people have mis understood my post.

@WestendVBroadway - I am not denying that racism exists in Wales, or that nobody has ever experienced hostility. My point is that Welsh speakers rarely use their language to exclude others. When I hear 'the story' it is almost always exactly the same, and if you ask for details the story-teller often admits that it happened to 'a friend of theirs' or some other such bollocks. The Caernarfon pub goers of your experience would have been just as unfriendly, whatever language they were speaking. It sounds like a shit pub.

"Showing off"?! By speaking your native language?

I'll admit i find other languages fascinating and will often listen to the melodic sounds of someone talking in a language I don't understand. It's lovely!

I've never heard someone speaking Welsh before in real life (conversationally). I do occasionally hear people speaking Scottish Gaelic and it's wonderful to hear. I'm in Newcastle so some people who speak broad Geordie do sound like they're speaking a foreign language. I've been mistaken for being 'foreign' by many English speakers and have experienced the snide remarks when they haven't realised that were both speaking English followed by the immediate apologies from them when they realise that I can understand them.

My husband is foreign and speaks to our children in his language, so they learn. I can honestly say he's never faced any hostility or weird attitudes or looks from strangers. I know it does sometimes happen to others but we've never experienced it. He's been here 25 years and it's not been a problem.

and yes he would verify all of this, however he doesnt bother to speak to those that are so dam rude such as yourself
My boyfriend goes to another school you wouldn’t know him.

@LittleDandelionClock

Since when did people speak Welsh in Chester?

Lots of people from Wales go shopping in Chester. It's only 8 miles away . .it's common to hear Welsh

@ChargingBuck

madisonbridges
The irony of a Welsh person complaining about feeling hostility in England whilst speaking Welsh. Lol.

Er - what?
Can you explain how your version of 'irony' works here @madisonbridges, 'cos I cannot fathom it.
Lol.

If you don't understand, what are you laughing about? 🤔

Anyway, its ironic because as detailed by many on here and as experienced by myself, there are many cases where Welsh is spoken so that English people feel hostility in Wales.

I understand that you don't want to believe that Welsh people might behave like that but they certainly did whilst I was there. Please don't call me a liar or deny my experience. Not only is it rude but it also shows a certain ignorance on your part.

I teach EFL and on this thread I have nowhere said that any foreign language speaker should speak English and not their native tongue. I know that speaking your native tongue is much more relaxing than speaking with a foreign one. However, speaking a foreign language to exclude others around you and ostracise them is rude. Even my lower level EFL students don't do that to each other. They attempt to speak English so that everyone feels included and comfortable.

I suspect that in the ops case, it's just a misunderstanding. The op considered their interaction with the English man was over so they sank back into English. Meanwhile the English guy thought they were going to have a chat together, so felt excluded when they changed language.

@takenforgrantednana

anyway surely as you where travelling in england in the midlands then the right thing to have done was to continue speaking in english ep as you where also talking to the english bloke too it may have been a different matter if you had been in wales but even then i would have considered it very rude to blank the bloke the way you did

She was not talking to bloke at all at any point. Being in England does not mean speaking English is mandatory. A lot of women don't live their lives pandering to blokes (English or otherwise) and thank fuck for that.

@ChargingBuck

We are all hateful xenophobes in England. Also narcissists so the non Welsh speaking chap will have assumed you were talking about him.

All 60 fucking million of us,? What a twatty comment

You've just unwittingly demonstrated how pervasive the "all Britain is English, & I demand you speak English if you are in proximity to an English stranger" mentality is @Allycott.

The UK does not consist of 60 million English people.
Think about it, check your work, & get back to us, yeah?

Erm no. Person said we are ALL hateful xenophobes in England - they said ALL - they didn't specify which particular geographic area, language speakers, genders, nationality - JUST ALL. So I ask again? Are ALL people in England xenophobes or just the English ? If it's the ok latter where's your evidence? You said all so you must know us all very well.