I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

@Jacketpotato84

Coffeecats it was a rhetorical question. The guy did nothing wrong he wasn't being hostile He starred at her that's it

I’d disagree.

Staring at someone is rude anyway but there is staring and staring. And as non native speaker, I can tell you that you can have very agressive staring. Or hostile staring or putting you down staring.

My mother is maltese. If she started a conversation in English to a maltese person she would continue in english..used to flip between the two when I was small if she didn't want me to overhear certain things, so yes this does happen! If I was sitting by you I would therefore assume the same thing. Were you showing off because you speak two languages as you were obviously studying peoples reactions

ChargingBuck - if people are living in Wales and is paying taxes in Wales then I’m afraid they are as Welsh as you who emigrated there 20 years ago, or those whose families have lived there for generations. Nations and societies are not static - so deal with it and take responsibility for the fabric of society in Wales today. Because that is Wales. No use pointing the finger as and when it suits you. It doesn’t wash. Most countries are far more multicultural than Wales fgs.

@Pumperthepumper

There there dear. Nasty women, excluding a total stranger & being all happy in each other's company, woefully neglecting their duty to simper at & pander to you.

@Jacketpotato84

Charging buck op on a train with her friend, chatting yet seems to take more notice to the actions of a stranger and how they felt (which they can't explain) him being hostile. *a certain kind of Englander? What does that mean!

Oh Jacket ... if you have to ask ...

[quote ChargingBuck]@Pumperthepumper

There there dear. Nasty women, excluding a total stranger & being all happy in each other's company, woefully neglecting their duty to simper at & pander to you. [/quote]
I know! So I reacted with hostility, as you’d expect. As is my right!

@coffeecats

ChargingBuck - if people are living in Wales and is paying taxes in Wales then I’m afraid they are as Welsh as you who emigrated there 20 years ago, or those whose families have lived there for generations. Nations and societies are not static - so deal with it and take responsibility for the fabric of society in Wales today. Because that is Wales. No use pointing the finger as and when it suits you. It doesn’t wash. Most countries are far more multicultural than Wales fgs.

I don't think you are appreciating the difference between 'pointing the finger' & pointing out facts @coffeecats.

How do you suggest I take responsibility for the fabric of society in Wales today btw?
Do tell. I'm all agog.

And the non-Welsh speakers give off such an unmistakable AIR of being English that a silent signal goes the entire way around the pub. It’s total nonsense.
As I said in my post As soon as the customers and staff heard our English accents they all switched to speaking Welsh.
I really am not surprised that people would refuse to believe that this happened, as a person of colour am I more than used to people denying casual racist exists.....Oh, and before anyone tries to accuse my of being racist about the Welsh, I repeat am I recounting a real situation (which you may choose to disbelieve) and was merely comparing the OP's experience of being a non- native English speaker in England, with my similar experience of being a non Welsh speaker in Wales.

@WestendVBroadway

And the non-Welsh speakers give off such an unmistakable AIR of being English that a silent signal goes the entire way around the pub. It’s total nonsense. As I said in my post As soon as the customers and staff heard our English accents they all switched to speaking Welsh. I really am not surprised that people would refuse to believe that this happened, as a person of colour am I more than used to people denying casual racist exists.....Oh, and before anyone tries to accuse my of being racist about the Welsh, I repeat am I recounting a real situation (which you may choose to disbelieve) and was merely comparing the OP's experience of being a non- native English speaker in England, with my similar experience of being a non Welsh speaker in Wales.

ALL of them? Not a single Welsh utterance in the entire pub once you outed yourself? And stayed that way until you left? Having been perfectly happy to speak in English up until that point?

No, the opposite. Not a single syllable of English once they realised, not one. ALL of them switched to Welsh until you finally fucked off.

It’s just whinging and deflection ChargingBuck and well you know it.

So what if you have people in Wales who once lived in England. How many Welsh are in England. How did they vote? Who bloody cares? They live here now and they are part of society and that’s that.

You sound like a whinging xenophobe. Straight up.

@WestendVBroadway

And the non-Welsh speakers give off such an unmistakable AIR of being English that a silent signal goes the entire way around the pub. It’s total nonsense. As I said in my post As soon as the customers and staff heard our English accents they all switched to speaking Welsh. I really am not surprised that people would refuse to believe that this happened, as a person of colour am I more than used to people denying casual racist exists.....Oh, and before anyone tries to accuse my of being racist about the Welsh, I repeat am I recounting a real situation (which you may choose to disbelieve) and was merely comparing the OP's experience of being a non- native English speaker in England, with my similar experience of being a non Welsh speaker in Wales.

But WHY would they be speaking English if they all spoke Welsh ?

My grandmother used to say 'gwastraffu saesneg' which I think roughly translates to 'wasting english' as in why would you bother speaking English unless necessary?

The only way I can make sense of it is to think others don't believe that Welsh is a proper language.

Not speaking your own language is why languages die out. Keep speaking Welsh, leave others to deal with their paranoia of been spoken about. I don't think you are rude, and even if it is rude so be it....my DH has lost his native language because it wasn't allowed while he was at school and his parents wouldn't speak it in the presence of anyone without it. To lose the language you spoke solely till you entered school is a sad affair. Use Welsh....English isn't about to die out!

@Rno3gfr

I’m a Welsh speaker but English is the lannguage I use the most. However, when I’m with a friend who also speaks Welsh sometimes we don’t even realise then we’ve switched languages, we sort of switch back and forth a lot. I don’t really understand why it’s rude for people to switch back to their preferred language? You wouldn’t say that about two French people using their preferred language.

People do say that all the time. I speak French with a couple of colleagues at work because it's our most natural shared language. But there are several people at work who don't like it and two in particular who make a point of always interrupting us and asking us to speak English because it's apparently rude to speak a language that some people in the room don't understand even if they weren't part of the conversation.

Ok, in future I will be careful not to stare at anybody for no reason especially if they are talking Welsh, should I be deemed hostile.
Thing is, I was having a nice chat with you and the conductor and I smiled with glee. It had a bad day and was happy to be included in the conversation. Then, you two women started talking in a language I don't understand and I was shocked and felt you may be talking about me (hence the face)

I'm sorry if you felt threatened by my facial expression.

Regards
Stranger on the train

So what if you have people in Wales who once lived in England. How many Welsh are in England. How did they vote? Who bloody cares? They live here now and they are part of society and that’s that.

Are they really part of Welsh society if they don't know any Welsh, don't speak any Welsh, and vote for a proposition which will cripple the Welsh economy? Is it possible they voted the way they voted because regardless of their address, deep down their hearts beat to an English nationalist drum?

@Jacketpotato84

Ok, in future I will be careful not to stare at anybody for no reason especially if they are talking Welsh, should I be deemed hostile. Thing is, I was having a nice chat with you and the conductor and I smiled with glee. It had a bad day and was happy to be included in the conversation. Then, you two women started talking in a language I don't understand and I was shocked and felt you may be talking about me (hence the face)

I'm sorry if you felt threatened by my facial expression.

Regards
Stranger on the train

Sigh

Rtft

They were never engaged in conversation at any point

The way so many residents of the UK have no shame at all about ignorance of a language spoken in the UK for thousands of years never fails to shock.

@Jacketpotato84

Ok, in future I will be careful not to stare at anybody for no reason especially if they are talking Welsh, should I be deemed hostile. Thing is, I was having a nice chat with you and the conductor and I smiled with glee. It had a bad day and was happy to be included in the conversation. Then, you two women started talking in a language I don't understand and I was shocked and felt you may be talking about me (hence the face)

I'm sorry if you felt threatened by my facial expression.

Regards
Stranger on the train

Get over yourself. It's that simple.

@Bunchymcbunchface

I’m English and live in Wales. Quite often when out with friends they will be speaking English with the group, then another joins the group and they all start speaking Welsh. It’s never bothered me. A friend also stays with my friend in England, she’s welsh but speaks English to us, if her parents call her she speaks exclusively Welsh to them. It’s their native tongue.

If you speak Welsh than I can see it wouldn't be a problem which language you all spoke in. But if you don't speak Welsh and your friends can speak your language but they deliberately choose to speak in a language you don't understand, I think they're incredibly rude. I teach EFL and during breaks my students will usually sit with others of their own nationality and speak their own language. Very natural. However, if another student of a different nationality joins them, they would revert to English. It would be rude to ostracise them.

It’s possible the guy on the train didn’t like it because he wanted to observe, eavesdrop and possibly even ‘chat up’ two women sitting near him on a train.

OP, once you began speaking in Welsh, your conversation was no longer been accessible to him.

It all sounds very creepy to me.

@Pumperthepumper

No, the opposite. Not a single syllable of English once they realised, not one. ALL of them switched to Welsh until you finally fucked off.

Well we didn't stay long as we felt uncomfortable, but as I originally said about 20% were already speaking English. @DdraigGoch. But WHY would they be speaking English if they all spoke Welsh ? Well how would I know, but they were clearly all bilingual .

[quote WhenISnappedAndFarted]@Pumperthepumper One story was a campsite, one was in a shop, so not always a pub. And so what, maybe some are bollocks maybe some are true. Doesn't mean everyone is lying.[/quote]
Please believe me when I say that most welsh people have heard a version of this story…some of them multiple times. It’s as endemic as the servicemen’s story about how Jeremy Corbyn was seen dancing an Irish jig with the IRA

Ddraigmor

:59Builtthiscityonsausagerolls

The guy was being hostile, both my friend and I felt it and acknowledged it. I get that it's hard to explain, but when you're in the situation you can feel when an attitude has changed.
To clarify again, we didn't have a conversation with thus guy. He was sitting opposite us. Had a bit of friendly chat with the conductor which he joined in on but we weren't directly talking to him.
Even if we were, I still find it a bit baffling that according to these responses that meant for the next 2 hours we were obliged to continue our conversation in English

Idontwanna

I don't wanna!

Simple :)