I think I've just experienced what it's like in England..

[Builtthiscityonsausagerolls]

To not be a native English speaker.

My natural first language is Welsh. I went to an English university and obviously have a native proficiency in English but when chatting im more comfortable in Welsh.

So... I'm on a train in the Midlands with a friend. Had a chatty conversation with the conducter in English, guy sitting across from us very friendly. The we switched to Welsh and the difference in attitude was immediate. Felt very hostile. Very hard to explain, but as soon as we switched languages it became almost threatening?

I'm used to speaking Welsh in maybe more border towns (mainly chester) where its quite common, but thinking about it not in 'deep' England :) 😀

We keep going over it, but the change in attitude was definitely when we changed language. Is this really the experienced of non-English speakers? The hostility really was quite overt

Give me a break - everyone who is bilingual or more switches to the other language to say something derogatory and anyone who has not done it is lying.

No, not me.

In my family DB and I are bilingual Welsh/English, SIL is bilingual in English and her mother tongue, DN is trilingual in Welsh English and mother’s mother tongue. DH is monoglot and has never had the slightest issue with us speaking other languages in front of him.

It's odd. OP is entirely fine to speak whatever language she likes.

But Ransome bloke isn't entitled to be puzzled by the switch.

OK.

I'd have thought the obvious answer is you were all as entitled and/or rude as each other.

As in meh! It happens. Reading to much into it just makes you look daft

Give me a break - everyone who is bilingual or more switches to the other language to say something derogatory and anyone who has not done it is lying.

I see you know everyone then, do you?

That some people can and do do it, doesn't mean that everytime someone switches, it's to be rude about someone else. I'd guess about 90% of the time, people are just having a normal chat.

It's not our fault that others are paranoid about the 10%, most of whom may not even have experienced the 'rudeness' they're afraid of. I'd say it's more about the entitlement to other people's conversation, to be privy to some potential gossip. Otherwise, why think they're being excluded from a conversation that they aren't part of to begin with, by people they don't know?

So what if people talk about me? They can do so in English as much as in every other language, in front of me or behind my back. Who cares? It's their problem.

Give me a break - everyone who is bilingual or more switches to the other language to say something derogatory and anyone who has not done it is lying.

This is one of those 'don't judge everyone by your own standards' moments. I have never, ever, switched languages to say something derogatory about someone in front of them because I know full well that if I can speak several languages which nobody would ever think I spoke, then anyone else can too.

What I have done is switch languages in situations where I thought it would give me a tactical advantage in a situation: when haggling with a souvenir seller in Cairo I spoke with my Mum in Cantonese, and when I got held up at knifepoint in São Paulo with a Brazilian friend we spoke English to decide what to do next.

I'd love to see an English person in Spain (for example) speak to the conductor on the train in Spanish and then turn to their family and continue speaking in Spanish just in case someone might think they're rude!! No, they'll speak to their family in English because it is their mother tongue and therefore easiest especially if talking about something more complicated than 'here is my train ticket'. That is exactly what the OP did. I can't for the life of me work out why some people think she was in the wrong!

By the same logic I don't see what the man did wrong either.

As I said, meh! It happens all the time.

@uneffingbelievable

Give me a break - everyone who is bilingual or more switches to the other language to say something derogatory and anyone who has not done it is lying.

As kids my mum spoke French and English and my Dad German, Dutch and English. Kids used to speak to each other in the language that they knew their parents did not know and it was usually to be rude!

As to switching languages infront of people at work - always speak in English - it is the language of the country I live in and the offical language of communication.

With my friends and family I will do what ever I like

Don't view everyone through your own family lens, maybe? I certainly know families where more than one language is spoken where the kids used their fluency in the language not spoken by a parent to be cheeky about them, but I think that's a pretty childish view of multilingualism. Which would be forgivable in a child, but in an adult suggests immaturity, egocentrism and a certain linguistic paranoia, if you really think that anyone language switching in your presence is doing so in order to slight you.

@landofgiants

So weird that people feel threatened by hearing other languages spoken - I just don't get it. OP YANBU.

That story about someone going into a pub in Wales and everyone suddenly speaking Welsh to exclude them, is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard (and I've heard it many many times). I don't believe it has ever happened. I've been living in North Wales for around 15 years now, (I speak some Welsh but I am not fluent) and I have NEVER experienced this. If anything Welsh speakers go out of their way to switch languages to make me feel included.

Totally…the number of times I’ve heard this ridiculous story. Fuck, my eyes just roll straight up everytime I hear it. English people, get this, us welsh can’t tell the difference between a Welsh speaker or an English speaker when the walk into pub/cafe/shop or whatever. What the fuck makes English people think we only use our language just to piss off the bloody Saes?.??

Honestly this thread...

I'm barely able to speak the English I grew up speaking but I'm tempted to take evening classes in Welsh just to piss off the people who think its rude to speak any other language.

How will you cope when Mandarin becomes the global lingua franca and most of the world's population sits around slagging off Anglo-Saxons in a language you have no hope of understanding?

@Rosiesmydog, could you not use the term Saes please? The word is Sais. Saes is a herb.

Although the plural is Saeson and the word for the English language is Saesneg. Quirky language!

How will you cope when Mandarin becomes the global lingua franca and most of the world's population sits around slagging off Anglo-Saxons in a language you have no hope of understanding?

Actually, this is a completely different kettle of fish. When I did my MBA the class of 110 students had only 15 native English speakers, but was conducted in English. It was effectively a microcosm of globalisation viewed through a business lens.

If you've ever sat around a meeting table (or, indeed, in Nando's) with a Thai, a Mexican, someone from Beijing, someone from Guangzhou, a Muslim Indian living in Saudi, and a Peruvian - as I have done - the only language which is actually common to all is a weird intersect of language school IELTS English, technical textbook terminology and, possibly, a bit of Hollywood slang or BBC World Service English in received pronunciation.

It's called Globish - there's plenty been written about it. I was relatively accustomed to speaking Chinglish having lived in Hong Kong in childhood and found it relatively easy to adapt to Globish, but some of my native English-speaking classmates really struggled to make themselves understood early on.

Mandarin will never become ubiquitous because China has little interest or ability in imposing it in places like South America or Africa but still needs to trade there. Globish wins out.

This is, however, far from the same thing as trying to get by in Germany, Spain or France by shouting louder in English. That just pisses people off.

@CounsellorTroi

Although the plural is Saeson and the word for the English language is Saesneg. Quirky language!

Yes, but using Saes as the singular indicates that you don't speak Welsh, because the singular is Sais as in Twll tin pob sais a Dwi isio bod yn Sais It is used as slang by south walians who don't speak Welsh, but makes no sense if you do.

Yes I mean you my friend who think you speak it fluently and write to me starting with Cariad Kirsten, and talk about the hwyl (no it isn't pronounced hoil) and cwtch

Nights out in Wales must be high-stress:

“what shall we do tonight – restaurant, cinema, bowling?”

“What about the pub? I fancy a night on the second language and high alert waiting for someone English to come in so I can instantly switch back to Welsh.”

“Oh, Rhys. Not again, I just want a pint.”

@Thadhiya

People are so weird, and cannot believe how many weird responses in this thread. "It's rude to use other languages" - on a bleedin' TRAIN? She doesn't OWE some random bloke in another seat any courtesy in the language she uses. "He thought you were talking about him", are you all insane?

Christ, this island.

OP in your shoes I'd use Welsh everywhere and make the English utterly wet themselves in terror.

Weirder is the ‘rule’ some posters are adamant about whereby if you speak English at all with someone, however fleetingly, or even just in their presence it is unforgivably rude to then switch to another language. So Welsh at all times or not at all. Since Welsh is a minority language even in Wales, applying this principle could effectively mean not speaking Welsh at all outside the home. Because the minute you break into English to - speak to a train conductor, for example- it’s rude to stop.

I don’t get it. Surely we’ve all had a chat with strangers on a train or plane or in a queue and at some point the shared chat ends and those people go on to talk amongst themselves again. You don’t expect to remain part of the conversation, do you? If not, why does it matter if that bit you’re no longer a part of is in another language? And if it does matter to you, why is the conclusion that the people are rude rather than recognising it’s not actually rational to feel slighted?

I don’t think posters have thought this through.

You keep speaking your own language and be proud of it.

I agree that he may have thought you were talking about him.

On the other hand myself & my hubby were stating in a little village in the middle of Wales we walked in a local pub, there were only about 3 or 4 blokes in there chatting to the bar man. They realised we were English & immediately started speaking to each other in English. I thought it was a really nice touch.

@LittleDandelionClock

Since when did people speak Welsh in Chester?

Since when was it not appropriate to speak your native language regardless of location? Ffs

Sounds like he is the “chat to strangers” type of person and he would have joined your chat otherwise.

In which case it was his face changing from an open “let’s make friends” to a bored resting face?

“Oh, Rhys. Not again, I just want a pint.”

I live in France, married to a French man and have brought up our kids (now teens) to be bilingual. The difference in the two countries i shocking.
Since they were tiny, random French strangers have always acted positively on hearing us speaking together in English. We are constantly told how lucky they are to be bilingual and often told by strangers that it's lovely to hear us speaking a different language and switching between the two.
Unfortunately, when we're in the UK, we don't have the same reaction. The hostility has definitely got worse recently. I now ask the kids to be careful not to speak French in public but it's totally unnatural for any of us to speak English to DH and certainly a challenge for him not to speak French as his English is not great! It's a sad situation. DH obviously makes an effort if addressing someone else, but will turn to us and speak French. He's not being rude and surely shouldn't be expected to not speak his own language when spending a few days in another country!!

It is considered very rude to speak in another language when you originally had a conversation in English (or any language) and then change to a different language which you know people may not understand. This is in any country. You could be saying something rude about the people. Very impolite.

No, they'll speak to their family in English because it is their mother tongue and therefore easiest especially if talking about something more complicated than 'here is my train ticket'. That is exactly what the OP did. I can't for the life of me work out why some people think she was in the wrong! confused

That wasn’t the case. OP and her friend were engaging in ‘chatty conversation’ with the conductor while the guy opposite was very friendly as evidenced by his smiling. OP and her friend were perfectly free to converse in Welsh but I’m not sure what the guy was supposed to do; he probably stopped smiling because no one was saying anything amusing any more. Unless I’ve missed something, I don’t think OP has said what he did that

@BrocolliFloret

Sounds like he is the “chat to strangers” type of person and he would have joined your chat otherwise.

In which case it was his face changing from an open “let’s make friends” to a bored resting face?

Why are you making excuses for this random, rude, hostile man who you don't know from Adam?

If the OP says both her and her friend felt he was hostile, I believe her. Why are you so keen to bend reality instead of addressing the issue the OP is asking?

Sorry, don’t think OP explained what he did that was ‘almost threatening’.