AIBU to think seclusion is a ridiculous behaviour management policy?

[doggieflooflove]

Now I know In some circumstances it's necessary, but as a general behaviour management tool it's awful.
DS is in yr7. He unfortunately had his first experience of seclusion today after being involved in an incident last week. No fights, malicious behaviour etc, just some silliness that went too far. Now I totally accept that he should be sanctioned and take his punishment.
But a whole day in a room with just a work sheet to fill in, missing 7 lessons including a graded test?
Why not just send them to the seclusion room at breaks/ for lunch for example? For DS, it's not part or a pattern of behaviour or an escalation. So a whole day of education missed for what?
Yes of course I'm hoping it will help him realise what is not acceptable behaviour so will behave better in future.
But really? Surely there's a better way than this unless its the only option left?
Help me accept this is the way it is at secondary please!

Yanbu
Isolation is lazy and useless.
Most teens need inclusion techniques, can't just sit there and reflect on their behaviour. It rarely works. Hence why the same kids end up back in. It just gets the nuisances out of the way to let the other children learn. But the issues are never addressed. So it repeats because it does not work. Children thrive with input.

@Soontobe60
lighten up,

There are serious issues around the way some schools over-use isolation. They do have a legal duty to educate children, and obviously giving them worksheets to fill in is not education. It may not be so bad for a one-off, but these rooms are regularly used for children with SEN who end up in them for days on end. The government promised three or four years ago to issue some official guidance, but has never done it.

And yet we have the highest number of children going on to university and successfully getting degrees. How do you explain that?

Lack of proper thought about university courses. There are too many courses which are prepared to take students with quite low A level grades, and children get steered towards them when they would really be much better off taking vocational qualifications. At the end of their course they end up all too often with, at best, a low level degree in a subject no employer is interested in, and massive debt.

“ds got in trouble for throwing equipment in year 7

it was a pencil”
Your point is?

^ THIS in spades! Of course throwing a pencil is throwing equipment- it is also disruptive and dangerous.

I actually think there is a place in schools to come down hard like this at the start to make a clear message to the Child and their peers “this will not be tolerated”

Too much wishy washy leads to boundaries not being clear

it was the phrase "equipment" which made me snigger

why arent you teachers teaching?

why aren’t you teachers teaching? I’ve got Covid. Why aren’t you working?!

i am not a teacher

But no one will convince me that seclusion is the right sanction other than in certain appropriate circumstances.

What circumstances would you accept?

He, among others, did something that is potentially dangerous. He was sanctioned for it. If the worksheets were subject relevant that'd be great. But maybe the school have let this bundling happen for a while and now they are trying to stamp it out quickly so the sanctions have to be tough enough that boys stop doing it.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

why arent you teachers teaching?

I teach part time. What’s your point?

[quote MrsLargeEmbodied]@Soontobe60
lighten up,[/quote]
Do you really believe throwing a pencil in class is ok? Judging by your response ‘it made me snigger’, you probably do. Should they have used ‘stationary’, ‘writing implement’, ‘small sharp piece of wood’?
Maybe try teaching a class of 30 twelve year olds whose parents think throwing stuff around is ok.

I agree it’s serious , a friend of mine was permanently scared on the face by someone throwing a pencil when we were at primary but what is wrong with ‘pencil’

The problem is, what punishments can schools hand out then? There is another thread running where people are expressing outrage at after school detentions

In reality, the main problem is 30 kids in a class is too many. It is hard enough to give them all the attention they need to learn in a class of absolute angels- when kids start acting up, even if it is ‘only’ throwing a pencil or chatting to a friend it is impossible. There is a ripple effect- once one of them is seen to ‘get away’ with something more and more will start. Isolation may seem unfair to those who get taken out but it works- and leaves you able to teach the 25 who actually want to learn.

However, in my school they are only isolated for one lesson- I have worked in schools with a more ‘zero tolerance’ attitude where 2 warnings for anything means isolation for a whole day.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

ds got in trouble for throwing equipment in year 7

it was a pencil

Why was he throwing things around?

He was more than old enough to know this was unacceptable behaviour.

The school haven't made your son miss a day of learning, it was his silly behaviour that caused him to miss a day of learning, back the school up wholeheartedly and maybe take him to play kids rugby, get him involved in a scrum and let him experience what it feels like to have a whole load of bodies land on you when you're expecting it, then ask him how it would feel if you weren't expecting it and what the risks could be.

Imagine the fury of a parent who has to take their kid to the hospital after someone has pulled a stupid stunt like this, they miss work, has to arrange someone else to pick up their other kids, there's follow up appointments, more school and work missed and the potential for long term injury, one day of missed education for your son pales into insignificance when you look at what could be the implications.

(Can you tell that it's my DS who has had this done to him and that the outcome was pretty serious).

I think you should home school your son

@VitalsStable I'm so sorry this happened to your son. I've never heard of bundling and had no idea what it was until I read this thread.

It sounds as if the teacher was trying to reassure you that they don't think your DS is a delinquent but: bundles are dangerous, the school needed to put a firm stop to them especially if they are starting to catch on as a craze, he wont be the only one in isolation for the same thing, and if he's upset about it then it's having exactly the right effect. He'll think twice before doing dangerously silly things.

he's missed a day of learning.

He had a worksheet to do. And if you and he have figured out that being in the classroom and learning along with the others are privileges that can be lost, then that's a good thing.

Make him sit on his own at the back of the class.

Really? You want the whole group sitting at the back of the classroom all day? How does that work?

There are much better ways of hitting where it hurts than potentially putting him behind in his classes.

By one day? That's a bit precious. Maybe he'll have to work a bit harder for the next few days to catch up.

I'm hoping it's the metaphorical firework up his arse.

I hope so too!

There are much better ways of hitting where it hurts than potentially putting him behind in his classes.

Well yes they could have called the police and your DS could have a criminal record for assault at the least, possibly ABH and if the bundle had gone badly GBH.

The whole point of exclusion is to remove the child so the one being bundled can walk around school without fear.

I assume the others involved in the 'bundle' have also got the same punishment, if they haven't then you might have a point.

Your child took part in a violent assault, he has been punished and got off quite lightly.

No I'm not exaggerating, that is what he did.

How many parents further sanction their child for their misbehaviour in school?

So basically he and some others piled on another child who could have been injured. It’s irrelevant that he was t the ring leader. You are doing your son no favours by minimising his bad bad behaviour. If your son had been bundled what sanction would you have expected, probably not a little word of advice in his ear.

My best advice would be stop sugar coating your child’s poor behaviour and decision making and support the school in disciplining him.

I went to a rough school. Over half of the class still wanted to get on and learn. Constantly disrupted by other kids pissing around. So, so irritating.

Your son got off lightly. The fairest thing to do with kids that persistently piss around is to keep sending them home until they get the message. That’s considered too extreme for the delicate little flowers though so they get seclusion instead.

It just gets the nuisances out of the way to let the other children learn. But the issues are never addressed.

It addresses the issues of the other children who want to learn. Why should their education be ruined because of the "nuisances"? I've had well behaved kids in tears because they can't cope with the constant disruption from other students when all they want is to pass GCSE maths. Their wellbeing matters too.

Also, in a good school there is a record of how many times each child reaches the isolation stage of the behaviour management policy, and strategies put in place for students who end up there often. Failing to deal with "low level" disruption doesn't help the students causing the disruption in any way.