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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think seclusion is a ridiculous behaviour management policy?

187 replies

doggieflooflove · 24/11/2021 22:29

Now I know In some circumstances it's necessary, but as a general behaviour management tool it's awful.
DS is in yr7. He unfortunately had his first experience of seclusion today after being involved in an incident last week. No fights, malicious behaviour etc, just some silliness that went too far. Now I totally accept that he should be sanctioned and take his punishment.
But a whole day in a room with just a work sheet to fill in, missing 7 lessons including a graded test?
Why not just send them to the seclusion room at breaks/ for lunch for example? For DS, it's not part or a pattern of behaviour or an escalation. So a whole day of education missed for what?
Yes of course I'm hoping it will help him realise what is not acceptable behaviour so will behave better in future.
But really? Surely there's a better way than this unless its the only option left?
Help me accept this is the way it is at secondary please!

OP posts:
ThuMuClu · 24/11/2021 23:22

arguments !!

MichelleScarn · 24/11/2021 23:23

Ah, what we'd call a 'pile-on' bloody stupid and could end up with really bad injuries.

Confusedteacher · 24/11/2021 23:23

And by the way, “silliness” for a Y7 is telling fart jokes or stealing someone’s pencil case. What your son did was dangerous and I hope you have told him that.

JurgensCakeBaby · 24/11/2021 23:24

@MichelleScarn there was a phase of this at my school which was essentially boys all rushing each other or targeting Anne poor unsuspecting kid in the same way, yelling bundle and then all diving on top of the first one to fall. It culminated in the incident I described above with one of the year 7 girls getting caught in the middle and being injured. There were suspensions at my school for that and one boy got expelled but for him it was the draw that broke the camels back I can't even remember how many times he'd had internal exclusion and suspension by that point in year nine.

doggieflooflove · 24/11/2021 23:28

@JurgensCakeBaby

Also who was the target of the bundle? Would you be ok if that had been your son?
No, and I'm really not condoning his behaviour. He knows we're all really disappointed with him and that his behaviour was reckless. I support him being disciplined for it. I honestly do. The problem with the seclusion is not thar he's had a day of "sensory deprivation" so to speak, it's that he's missed a day of learning. Take away his breaks for a week, stop him from going to sports clubs for a week or whatever. Make him sit on his own at the back of the class.
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Clymene · 24/11/2021 23:29

It strikes me he's going to learn that physical assault is not acceptable at secondary school. I think that's probably a good thing.

Look, he might be a weedy 11 year old now but believe me, weedy 11 year olds grow into strapping 13 year olds in the blink of an eye. And physical stuff post the age of criminal responsibility is no longer childish larks. He needs to learn not to join in, to think, to know when to not follow the crowd.

It's a harsh lesson now which will hopefully avoid a much worse one later.

HereBeFuckery · 24/11/2021 23:29

I'm a secondary teacher. Today after school I made five calls home to parents, all of Y7 students, all in one class - of the five classes I've taught today - and that's quite a light day for calling home for me.

We lost 50% of our lesson today to the behaviour of those students. That's not an exaggeration, btw, we had eight slides of material to cover, we just about finished four. Due to 'silliness'.

Wandering around the classroom, chatting, shouting out random things/insults, shouting answers when another student was trying to answer and I was trying to support them, throwing empty bottles around while I was trying to write on the board, waiting until I gave a warning that we were nearly at the end of a task to declare 'I don't have a pen Miss' and then turn to smirk at friends. Nothing major. All silliness. 50% of my time wasted entirely. 50% of my students time, wasted entirely. Through silliness.

I had the following replies from parents:
'Are you sure, that doesn't sound like my child?'
'My child is very grumpy at the end of the day, they can't help it.'
'I will check they are okay after you told them off then. They will be upset, I hope you are pleased about that.'
'I am sorry, that is bad, I will speak to my child.'
And one parent whose English was too broken to have a conversation with.

Do I think it's fair on the 24 students who behaved well and worked hard, that five pupils thought 'it's just silliness, what does it matter?' No. I think it's fundamentally flawed thinking.

Do I think those 24 students should have their learning obstructed by students who have not yet learned acceptable social behaviours and cannot control themselves in a secondary school classroom? No.

Do I think that those 24 students should be subjected to that behaviour, and have it repeated lesson after lesson after lesson? No.

Can those 24 students make up the missed lesson time? No. The school day is not elastic.

So, yes, if 'silliness' has an impact on others - and it does - then yes, I think it should be treated as seriously as physical or verbal bullying, and should be given an appropriate sanction.

This is every day. Very little behaviour I see is dangerous, almost all is 'silliness' and as a result, I encounter students in y11 with a pre-secondary reading age, students who cannot write effectively enough to be legible, students who consistently do not even attempt exam questions because they have not learned any skills with which to approach the task.

Were my school's behaviour policy to allow it, would I have excluded those five students to seclusion? In a heartbeat. They are behaving in a way which shows they are not in a place to learn. I need to focus my energies on those who are. I cannot force them to stop 'being silly'. Believe me, I have tried. I keep on trying. I am not with those children at home, I do not have time in lessons to explicitly teach basic manners, respect, how to interact with others in an acceptable way. I am not the parent of those children. All I can do is work with those who do want to learn. That's my job, and I'm trying to do it.

Treat this as a wake up call. YOU can make a change here for your child. Please please please do not underplay this, do not 'take your child's side' and sympathise with them about how mean the teacher is. Please give your child a fighting chance of a decent education.

P.s. Bet you can't guess what face I was making during three of those calls...

Clymene · 24/11/2021 23:30

He missed a day of learning? Good! You're disappointed and it's impacted him. That's what a punishment should do.

doggieflooflove · 24/11/2021 23:31

@Confusedteacher

And by the way, “silliness” for a Y7 is telling fart jokes or stealing someone’s pencil case. What your son did was dangerous and I hope you have told him that.
Oh yes believe me we have. We've made it crystal clear. Believe me, much as I hate this sanctions im also very very disappointed with his behaviour too
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FinallyHere · 24/11/2021 23:33

I genuinely don't think in this case the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
You'll just have to take my word for it, butt if I'm sure most won't!

Wasn't it Mandy Rice-Davies who said 'well, they would say that, wouldn't they '

Peaseblossum22 · 24/11/2021 23:34

@Clymene

He missed a day of learning? Good! You're disappointed and it's impacted him. That's what a punishment should do.
I genuinely don’t understand this. In my day you would have been given extra work not less work as a punishment. Being made to do nothing for a day is just weird .
doggieflooflove · 24/11/2021 23:34

@HereBeFuckery you have to trust me that I did not respond like that when the teacher called me!

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HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 24/11/2021 23:34

The only time I find inclusion helpful is when the child is disruptive to others education.

Ds2 school tried to suspend him for 3 days due to inappropriate use of social media, he had no involvement in the incident that took other than his friend making him admin on school group page.

Fortunately the head teacher seen sense and we received a letter of apology as we refused to allowed our son to be “made an example off” as his head of year stated.

I agree muddles can be dangerous and they need to be stopped however I personally don’t feel a child missing a full days education is warranted or beneficial.

timetimetickingonme · 24/11/2021 23:35

If bundles are happening all the time then you’ve probably got kids who are anxious and worried seeing/being the target of them, not to mention the risk of someone getting physically hurt. Your son was in isolation for one day. He’s in year 7. Missing one day of lessons and doing work elsewhere is hardly going to make him fail his GCSEs but it might make other pupils feel a bit safer in school if it puts a stop to it.

Clymene · 24/11/2021 23:36

It is extra work @Peaseblossum22 - he will have to catch up in his own time.

HereBeFuckery · 24/11/2021 23:36

Posted before you revealed what his behaviour had been.
Being part of a physical altercation (call it a bundle if you like, but I guarantee someone in the pile of kids got hurt) is dangerous. It causes ripples through a class, and will have led to disruption in classes that followed on from lunchtime. Adrenaline in teens goes hugely up and down and has a massive impact on learning.

Taking away breaks will do zero to stop this. Other kids won't see that there was a strong sanction imposed and will take that as free reign to copy. There's a reason sanctions are things that are fairly public.

Lack of self control around getting involved in a physical altercation is very worrying at such a young age.

Also, he has not 'missed' learning. He has been set approximately the same work as was done in class, but he was deprived of teacher input due to his choices.

doggieflooflove · 24/11/2021 23:37

@Clymene

He missed a day of learning? Good! You're disappointed and it's impacted him. That's what a punishment should do.
There are much better ways of hitting where it hurts than potentially putting him behind in his classes.
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HereBeFuckery · 24/11/2021 23:38

[quote doggieflooflove]@HereBeFuckery you have to trust me that I did not respond like that when the teacher called me![/quote]
Thank you! You will have made that teacher smile! Grin

Peaseblossum22 · 24/11/2021 23:42

@Clymene

It is extra work *@Peaseblossum22* - he will have to catch up in his own time.
Good point but surely hard work and industriousness is to be valued. Being made to sit idle with no stimulation is firstly a waste of time and secondly reminiscent of CIA torture methods for criminals rather than 11 year olds who perhaps could write an essay reflecting on their misdemeanours and how they might impact others .
AledsiPad · 24/11/2021 23:50

Absolutely nowhere in real life, bar prison, isolates human beings and denies them education for poor choices. Least of all ones who are children - 11 ffs - and still learning.

Seclusion is a fucking awful way of ‘behaviour management’ and a sign of a school that is failing at a base level to understand their children.

I despise it. I despise most things about secondary school in this country to be honest. It absolutely fails to set children up for college/university/life.

Charmatt · 24/11/2021 23:51

Presumably by sending him to school you are accepting the behaviour policy.
If you don't like it, move him.

He's learnt from it - if he has anything about him, his behaviour will change!

doggieflooflove · 25/11/2021 01:01

@Charmatt

Presumably by sending him to school you are accepting the behaviour policy. If you don't like it, move him.

He's learnt from it - if he has anything about him, his behaviour will change!

If there was a school available to us that didn't use isolation as part of its behaviour policy, then it would have been high up on my list. But they all do so it's really an illusion of choice, not me actively choosing a school because it has that policy. Two local schools were discounted by me because isolation appeared to be their go-to management strategy and all sign of dissent however small is jumped upon. That's not an environment I want for my child. Nor do I want him to get away with bad behaviour. But no one will convince me that seclusion is the right sanction other than in certain appropriate circumstances. We will have to suck this up and hope that he doesn't mess up and end up there again. I'm hoping it's the metaphorical firework up his arse. We shall see.
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coffeerevelsrock · 25/11/2021 06:15

@AledsiPad

Absolutely nowhere in real life, bar prison, isolates human beings and denies them education for poor choices. Least of all ones who are children - 11 ffs - and still learning.

Seclusion is a fucking awful way of ‘behaviour management’ and a sign of a school that is failing at a base level to understand their children.

I despise it. I despise most things about secondary school in this country to be honest. It absolutely fails to set children up for college/university/life.

Please tell me that either you don't have children or you do and they are being home-schooled.

It's amazing isn't it, given how crap schools are, that the vast majority of people who go to college and uni are successful there and arrive at them having been through the school system. I'll bet most of those who do fail have had parents backing them up and stepping in to 'protect' them whenever school tried to instil some discipline or respect for rules.

FallonCarringtonWannabe · 25/11/2021 06:35

They are not denied a day of education nor do they suffer sensory deprivation in an isolation room at school ffs.

He would have spent the day independently learning. Most likely the same work he would have been doing in class.

PaulaTrilloe · 25/11/2021 06:40

Ancient history here but I remember being put in isolation when I was 13-14 due to being bullied. I would come to school late and leave early to minimise risk of being beaten up or attacked on way to/from school. I just got on with my work in the head teachers office and as an introvert I quite liked the quiet calm safe space. My classroom usually had disruption and kids chucking chairs and shouting it was like a prison under siege

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