To ask you to see who girl guides support.

[RedCarpetRebellion]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/amp/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

A woman sacked for speaking up for girls safety was replaced by this person.

Girl guides are not safe for girls. AIBU?

And I'm afraid to say that I think that this kind of media coverage is the only way you'll get GG to have a root and branch review of how things have gone so catastrophically wrong.

I completely agree.

@Helleofabore

Has anyone asked if they got a reference for Monica before she began volunteering?

I think in my letter to them on Monday (before this became so widely known) I did ask what process was followed. As a parent asking, I would daresay that question will be completely ignored.

And while I agree it is better to focus on moving ahead now, we still have new posters who don't read through an entire thread who are questioning the relevance of what we are discussing. This is the nature of MN, of course.

So, I suggest there will be constant backwards and forwardsing that will annoy some posters.

I'm not annoyed, just saying!

I have reason to believe recruitment checking procedures are not followed, not uncommonly. I wonder if Monica's recruitment was the result of one of those failures, and if a reference would have identified these issues. If the reference did identify these issues, did Girlguiding follow up on these, and decide if she was a suitable volunteer for her post, both as a DC, and presumably also running a local Guiding group?

I just don’t understand. There has been a concerted effort to root out undesirable volunteers in recent years, eg scoutmasters, priests, choirmasters etc (dh’s is in prison - eek) and now it seems it’s wrong to judge . We all know that some people are crafty and seek to access unaccompanied children; that is why we have dbs checks and safeguarding rules. Not foolproof, but discouraging to ne’er do wells.

This is not about trans people per se, btw, but anybody who posts Ill-judged and dubious pictures on social media should have their services dispensed with immediately.

Don't know Eggy, will the truth ever come out?

Unfortunately Dotty there does seem to be a degree of protection being afforded here because of many issues. One being DBS checks if transitioners do not disclose their previous names. One being the pressure on people not to come forward, or even to discuss it because it is seen as coming from a place of phobia or hate. Rather than it actually being a very real need to apply the same rigour in safeguarding checks etc for males who ever they are.

No sacred groups should be allowed ever again.

Our energy needs to be focused on Girlguiding and their response, or lack of, to this. That is the only way things might change in Girlguiding. Saying repeatedly what an awful person Monica is will
not change things in Girlguiding
Who has said anything about Monica being an awful person? You could get that deleted if you see it. Just report the posts.

@averylongtimeago

What a person, be they man, woman, trans whatever, does in the privacy of their own home is their business alone (as long as it's within the law and with consenting adults of course) No one should be hounded because they like to dress up or collect replica guns.

However- if you publish dodgy photos of yourself wearing BDSM gear, in a state of undress, brandishing weapons or making sexually suggestive comments under your own name, then want to volunteer or work with children, well you should expect your public profile to be examined.

This type of public post across multiple social media accounts would get you into trouble with almost all employers or public organisations.

The reason they are so important is they show how the failure of Girlguiding's safeguarding policy has allowed a person to access children.

This photo alone (originally published with the children's faces showing) should be enough to have the poster removed. If you think it doesn't and that including a picture of yourself semi clothed with a bunch of little girls is fine, well I wouldn't want you near my grandkids either.

Even takeaway the top less in a bath tub pic who the fuck posts pics of other people’s kids to public social media.

Even if these are all very close family members children and the parents consented, it’s seems startlingly poor judgment to post little girls faces on line on a public platform.

Ex GG leader here.
I left because of the politicisation of the new programme, the trans issue and the crappy new programme they have issued featuring such crappy badges as "mixology"
GG has completely lost thr plot and is losing leaders left, right and centre.

What is mixology when it's at home??

@EishetChayil

What is mixology when it's at home??

Making mixed drinks.

@Helleofabore

Don't know Eggy, will the truth ever come out?

I hope so

@twelly

The GG movement began to change a few years ago in an attempt to become "appealing" to a wider group - they ditched the reference to "God' in their promise, they changes the badges and they basically alienated many of their leaders and in doing so put off many girls. Now they have attracted a new group of individuals whom in my view are alien to the old GG movement - I feel it is a very sad state of affairs. The GG movement over the years has done a lot to encourage girls and provided a fantastic opportunity for children whom cannot afford many of other clubs/societies, it encouraged them to try new things, broadening their horizon and provided them with role models. The movement has been very badly damaged and I wonder if it can recover its old identity

If a school is out into failing measures by ofsted then it has a complete over haul of leadership and reevaluates values and objectives.

So unless there’s a way of making GG do the same then no, they absolutely can’t recover. This is an institutional failing, and institutional failing they have already been made aware of by two GG leaders we know of and their response was to kick them out. The current entire leadership is completely unsuitable for working with children given those decisions, their policies and their employment of this person. They can’t recover from that.

The reality is they likely won’t face that reality yet, not until the very worst has happened and then there’s definitely no way to come back from that because they can not show they took every reasonable step possible to prevent harm.

The best we can hope for is that decent GG leaders band together and protest or all leave en mass and seek to establish their own independent network of organisations to honour GG original aims.

They could distance themselves from these safeguarding fails and dedicate their new movement to Baden powel.

The GG leaders on these threads, all four running currently, you need to let the parents know about this. If you don’t, and the GG policies mean the worst happens to their kid, they will view your lack of action just as bad as the predators GG policies are opening their doors to (there may not be any there yet, but predators go where they can get easy access to children and where institutional policy ensures they aren’t questioned, which is very true of GG ones).

so can't say whether it's soft porn or not

What level of 'porn' is good for a person in a position of responsibility of children to display on their social media feed, by the way?

Because, I am obviously a pearl clutcher who believes that any individual that has the responsibility of looking after my child should not have published ANY level of porn on their social media.

"Somewhere between a third and a half result from too much alcohol. A high proportion are domestic violence gone wrong. A blow struck one time too many: an egg-shell skull."

How does domestic violence go right? How can domestic violence be anything other than wrong?

@EishetChayil

What is mixology when it's at home??

Making cocktails.

I’d assume GG is non alcoholic ones, but still.

Got to teach girls to make their future husbands favourite drink correctly so she can be ready to wait on him when he gets home from work.

Goes so well with the twin sets favoured by both the mentioned tw on this thread.

My daughter has just started brownies 4 weeks ago and is really loving it, I'm about to buy her uniform this week.

I've read similar to this before and I did have my concerns but especially since this article. Can someone tell me what I can do? Should I be withdrawing her? She would be really upset. Can I write to anyone? Can I ask her leaders if they have any males identifying as females as helpers?! (I know that is ridiculous)

I've already decided she won't be going on any camping trips or sleep overs.

@guiltynetter

I've already decided she won't be going on any camping trips or sleep overs.

I've taken mine out and feel like a pile of sh*t. They enjoyed it.

And it's probably ok. And they probably won't come to harm and be abused there. But that's not really good enough is it?

@guiltynetter they won’t tell you if there are. Much like they won’t tell the parents of any guides that there are any boys identifying as girls sleeping in their daughters tents or using their showers.

It’s a real shitshow

Can I ask her leaders if they have any males identifying as females as helpers?! (I know that is ridiculous)

^ I wondered that but unsure if this counts as confidential personnel info?!

They’ve told parents in the past that it would breach personal data to tell them if there was a TW as a leader.

I mean you’d be able to tell at a meeting though. They don’t “pass” like they think they do

For girls to be genuinely at Brownies / Guides then obviously parents need to feel confident.

I can’t see that happening whilst the current ideology is in force… Expelling leaders who speak out about their concerns is a MASSIVE red flag that the management is poor.

@Clymene

I am going to focus on Monica as an individual and girl guiding.

I am suspicious of the motives of a recently transitioned man with very poor boundaries choosing to join an previously single sex organisation where there are overnights with children with low adult child ratios.

I am not going to apologise for that.

Yep. ‘Monica’ is one person I wouldn’t want in woman-only spaces.

I have tried to gather my thoughts on this. I don’t want to be mean to Monica and I am very happy for Monica that they have found themselves and seem to be looking being their best life as a woman. From the look of it with a great sex life.

But this is my issue

1. Why are leaders sexualising children? I was really angry when GG tweeted about asexual week (even if I am Demi sexual and fall under the ace umbrella). GG should not talk to young girls about sex. At all. This is a discussion for parents and teachers under safeguarding conditions. Tweeting about sexuality was wrong.

2. Monica had an extensive social media presence, open for all, where Monica posted pictures half naked, offered to send more intimate pictures and also posed as a dominatrix. Regardless of how you identify, this is completely inappropriate for a GG leader, let alone a senior position haver. Either GG failed massively in background checks or they didn’t care. But Monica is not a child. Monica needs to take response for Monica’s social media presence.

3. GG have regulations where they recommend handing out condoms, morning after pills and take 13 year old girls to STD checks, all without parents’ knowledge unless the girl wants to tell. This is horrific. Not only should GG not do this but I was shocked to find out that there could be girls with penises at sleepovers, sleeping in the same dorm/tent and with a subsequent risk of pregnancy. This is beyond unacceptable.

In conclusion, there seem to be a complete lack of safeguarding in GG.

There is also a kindness problem. We had posters here telling us that this discussion should not be had on the main boards. We had posters saying that we were mean to Monica. But…. Maybe GG ignored the social media because they didn’t want to be mean to Monica? Maybe the condoms, morning after pill and STD check recommendations came because they didn’t want to be mean to girls with penises? Are there more Monica’s they don’t want to be mean to?

We have to be able to discuss these things openly and nobody should be treated with kid gloves because they identify in a certain way. Everyone should be held to the same standards. And 13 year old girls should not be sexualised, risk pregnancy and be given condoms and morning after pills behind the back of parents. By some random volunteers. These girls are sent there because responsible parents wants their girls to learn skills and have adventures. The leaders are in loco parentis and GG as an organisation has severely misplaced the trust of parents.