To think the hotel is in the wrong?

[MiddayMass]

My sister and her husband had their 10 year anniversary party at a local hotel yesterday. They had a free bar on them, £1500 tab.

Dsis was suspicious over some things as tab was sucked dry very quickly and she’d seen people at the bar and yet not with a drink at the table, so she asked for a receipt of everything ordered throughout the night.

It’s turns out somebody (or several people) were buying full bottles directly from the bar. Not just wines but spirits, one cheeky fucker bought an entire bottle of Remy Martin. Others only got chance to have a lime and soda or a coke on the tab before it was sucked up. A few late-arrivals got fuck-all.

Me and Dsis both suspect who the culprits are but we can’t really prove it.

Dsis has spoken to the manager who confirmed that people were buying bottles on the tab (this amazes me, surely it breaks some kind of licensing law) and that they did not see it as a problem as Dsis and her husband never specified that they wanted it limited. Dsis feels it was a given. We’ve also heard from a family friend that one of the bar staff was telling people “You can buy the bottle if you’d like?” when they ordered the same spirit more than once. We feel it was an obvious attempt to suck the tab dry quickly to get people buying drinks again. The bar staff looked barely 18 so I imagine the manager had told them to upsell bottles.

Whilst people were cheeky fuckers, AIBU to think the hotel was in the wrong?

The person who you suspect of taking the bottle of Remy Martin home- are they a friend, a relative or an in law ?

I would've expected when they booked the hotel, that the hotel would've asked probing questions like. ...

Do you want to restrict to single measures for spirits

Do you want to allow shots

Do you want to allow champagne

IMO the hotel are hugely unprofessional and should know and warn the paying person the potential pitfalls.

As for encouraging bottles....

They've been massively unprofessional IMO.

It smacks of "sharp-practice".

Is this hotel very local to them - they need to shame it on social media!

@BorsetshireBanality

It smacks of "sharp-practice".

Is this hotel very local to them - they need to shame it on social media!

Agreed

What price was charged for the bottles of spirits? They didn't charge by the tot and round it up to the total number of tots in the bottle, did they?

@CrimbleCrumble1

I’ve never, ever heard of anyone ordering a bottle before. What an absolute CF.

I've seen people order bottles of wine - shared with a group it'd be cheaper than individually glasses overall usually. And only when it's been pre-agreed.

However, not bottles of spirits, especially not vintage or top end ones.

But bottles of anything should definitely be checked with the tab holder and not be an expectation. And even then, say if wine was allowed, just a normal amount not a very expensive or vintage type. And not champagne unless pre-agreed.

It's like everything - most people are sensible and fair and don't take advantage. But you always get a significant minority who will take advantage of any situation.

I like the idea of an email to all guests, just checking if anyone could confirm the hotel had definitely given them expensive bottles of wine or spirits, stating that you're concerned the hotel is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

@whynotwhatknot

so even though in the op it says shes been told it was the hotel asking do you want the bottle instead of a single its stil the sil fault?

sorry but the hotel were taking the piss out of them trying to get more sales

I doubt this very much. Hotel Bar staff don't give a shit how many drinks they sell. They would never see that extra income given they aren't given a profit share nor are they paid by how many drinks are sold that night. They have no skin in the game on selling more drinks.

What is most likely is the bar tab payers failed to set conditions on drinks that were included and there were some inexperienced minimum wage bar staff or they have previously experienced 'anything goes' type tabs and in the absence of instructions thought they were being helpful. I've been to many corporate hotel events where the drink types were unlimited, particularly when there are clients there, and getting a bottle of bubbles to play 'host' with your group Is totally fine.

I think it's down the bill payer to be clear about restrictions. Seriously who sets up a bar tab and doesn't think to themselves ' what if someone mainlines the Dom Perignon in the first half hour.. I'd better set some conditions'. Most people are indeed sensible and courteous with a tab but do you seriously think that everyone will queue nicely and choose only the reasonably priced drinks to sip over a couple of hours when they are probably already a bit tipsy from the meal?

One only has to see behaviour at buffets to realise that some humans are just grabby fuckers and they have to be legislated for.

I once shouted a dinner for my team and we met at the restaurant bar half an hour before we sat down. I told the bar staff to add the drinks to the bill. A couple of the younger team members kept leaving the table together while we were eating which I thought was odd. It turned out they were going up to the bar and doing more and more expensive shots every 20 minutes. It added £500 on the bill! Was it the bar staffs fault? Absolutely not!

I think its 50/50. The guests buying bottles of spirts were being absolute shits, but as an everyday person you not expect them to do this. The bar staff were technically not wrong to serve what they asked, but manager would have seen it all before in terms of shitty behaviour, and should have gone through or suggested rules.
I remember a charity bring a bottle party we attended. The host put out a few crates of wines and beers to ensure there was plenty, but was disappointed that some of the guest were helping themselves to take homes, and hiding bottles under their tables!

I like the idea of an email to all guests, just checking if anyone could confirm the hotel had definitely given them expensive bottles of wine or spirits, stating that you're concerned the hotel is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. absolutely do this. People will soon tell tales if no one owns up.

All these people saying the bar staff are not to blame, seriously! The hotel should have set the rules with DSis and BIL at the time, they are the ones who do this regularly as part of their jobs. The bar staff were also actively encouraging people to buy bottles. I agree it sounds like they were trying to run the tab dry quickly. Any decent bar manager would have raised the issue of bottles being taken as soon as it happened. Had they done this, then DSis could have addressed and guests being CFs at the time.

I like the idea of an email to all guests, just checking if anyone could confirm the hotel had definitely given them expensive bottles of wine or spirits, stating that you're concerned the hotel is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. absolutely do this. People will soon tell tales if no one owns up.

I agree with this. Who buys a whole bottle of brandy at a do ??? I guess they wont be inviting the same people to their 20th anniversary party

@ANameChangeAgain

I like the idea of an email to all guests, just checking if anyone could confirm the hotel had definitely given them expensive bottles of wine or spirits, stating that you're concerned the hotel is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. absolutely do this. People will soon tell tales if no one owns up.

I suspect no one would own up and the OP's family member wouldn't find anything out. But part of me just likes the idea of making the person who ordered the expos-naive bottle squirm a bit. I know that in reality it's probably better to just chalk it up as one of those things and do nothing.

I wouldn’t have thought to specify no full bottles because I can’t imagine any normal bar allowing it or my mates/family being such cfs as to do that! Utter arseholes.

@BorsetshireBanality

It smacks of "sharp-practice".

Is this hotel very local to them - they need to shame it on social media!

I agree, I’d be writing a review on their Facebook page and sharing on other SM.

Former events manager at a hotel here.

In UK you can sell bottles of spirits providing you check that the bottle is for a number of people rather than an individual.
We had people at loads of events who would want bottles of spirits on tables with mixers.

Was the tab setup ahead of the event with the events team or was it on the night?
The events team should have checked if there was any restrictions on the bar tab. It's part of basic training in this role. The operations team could have been made up of the F&B manager and floor/bar staff who, typically, follow orders from the BEO (events handover sheet), so if there were no restrictions identified on there, they wouldn't questions it as they would assume it had been discussed with the events team in advance and, tbh, would fear a complaint if they went against the sheet.

If the tab was setup on the night, was it setup with a manager who was running the event? If not, a duty manager could be any of the hotel managers, including a housekeeping supervisor or manager who wouldn't necessarily know to ask about restrictions. If it was the manager running the event, they should have asked but again, if they are inexperienced, they might not realise they need to ask. Many would assume the organisers would flag if there was something they didn't want on the tab.

Now, OP, I would genuinely question if everything on the tab was actually consumed in that way. I've had some terrible managers who used to tell us to always add extra pints to a bar tab (to cover "wastage") and if several people were buying the same spirit, ie a group ordered a round of double vodkas, they may have put it through the till as a bottle. It's awful but this does happen.

The problem is, there is no way to really know if this happened unless your sis raises a proper complaint with the hotel and asks them to investigate. Even then, the hotel will cover their own back as much as they can, but she may get some compensation if the above is true.

While I do think the hotel should have gone over the terms of what would be offered, the same applies vice versa. No-one on either side thought to specify, so you can't blame the hotel entirely for simply selling what was on offer.
The blame mostly lies with the guests who took the piss. I'd definitely be having a rethink about inviting the 'suspects' to any future events!

To clarify what I meant above if a group ordered 10 double vodkas, instead of putting through 20 shots, many "old school" hotel managers push staff to put this through as a bottle which is 28 shots to account for "wastage". Especially if they don't think the bill will be scrutinized

Rookie error. When you have an open bar you MUST tell the staff what is and isn't allowed on the tab. I.e. no rounds of shots / bottles of champagne / cocktails etc.

The hotel is not to blame here

@ITSSSSCHRISTMASSS

All these people saying the bar staff are not to blame, seriously! The hotel should have set the rules with DSis and BIL at the time, they are the ones who do this regularly as part of their jobs. The bar staff were also actively encouraging people to buy bottles. I agree it sounds like they were trying to run the tab dry quickly. Any decent bar manager would have raised the issue of bottles being taken as soon as it happened. Had they done this, then DSis could have addressed and guests being CFs at the time.

There's a severe shortage of good bar staff right now. The staff on the bar were probably half-trained teenagers who'd worked there a week or two at the most. What were they going to do if someone came up and said they wanted "six double brandies, actually, make that a bottle, saves time haha!!"? They'd serve it and the customer would tell them to put it on the tab.

The other thing I'm wondering is whether there were other customers in the hotel at the time, who might have decided to take advantage of someone else's tab.

Whilst the hosts should have thought to put limits on the tab, surely they would be guided by the bar manager/events coordinator as to what that limit looked like?

Everywhere I have ever worked, one of the first questions the event coordinator would ask when the host wanted to set up a tab/free bar was "Do you want limits on that?" and if the answer was yes then they would then break that down to specifics, but even then I don't think it would even occur to most people to have to put limits on not allowing a guest to buy a whole, sealed bottle of spirits from behind the bar on the tab as its just common sense.

I have worked in hospitality venues from VIP boxes in football clubs on match days to hotels and wedding venues and it has never been the norm for bar staff to sell, or encourage the sale of, full bottles of spirits to guests on a tab, and especially without confirming it with the manager/host. Bottles of wine are different - buying a bottle of house red or being told that its only £2 more expensive to buy the whole bottle than the 3 glasses they were ordering is standard, but I have never worked at a bar where staff have actively encouraged someone to buy a whole bottle of a spirit.

OP, I would be advising your DSis to contact the venue and speak to the events coordinator/bar manager to say that you are unhappy with the fact that the staff were not only selling full bottles of spirits to guests, but were actively suggesting it to them and you would like an explanation as to why this wasn't flagged up to her/her DH as the hosts before the tab was run dry. I would also be informing them that I would be contacting the licencing department at the local council regarding the sale of full bottles to guests. I would also be pointing out that this experience has left you with a negative view of their professionalism (why didn't they clarify re: full bottle sales at any point, since you hadn't explicitly said yes? Why didn't they inform you before the tab was emptied? Etc) and that will be reflected in any review or recommendation you give of the venue as a whole.

Hotel in wrong for encouraging people to buy bottles. At most weddings I’ve been to the ‘free bar’ consists of single spirits and soda, wine and beer, to stop people taking the piss

On another note, the hotel should have checked in with your sis when the tab was about half way through so she was aware and gave her an opportunity to review.

@Doubleraspberry

How is it 'part of the job' to advise you to buy less from them? Is it part of Tesco's job to tell every customer presenting a 'Finest' item at the till that they could swap it for a 'Value' one instead and pay much less?

The Licencing Act obliges bar staff to ensure that a customer ordering a drink is aware of the smaller measures available. All recent revisions to the law are designed to minimise consumption and encourage people to drink more responsibly, so the actions of the bar staff at this event were directly the opposite of that.

See this explanation:

Provision of smaller measures

Providing smaller measures of alcohol can play an important part in making sure your customers can keep their consumption to a minimum, should they wish. According to guidance, the licensee or designated supervisor must make sure that there are smaller measures available for the following:

Beer or cider: Half-pint glasses
Gin, rum, vodka, or whisky: 25ml or 35 ml measures
Still wine: 125ml glasses
The availability of these smaller measures must be clear on menus, price lists or other printed materials, and these must be accessible by customers on your premises.

When a customer orders a measurable drink — one that isn’t available in a set volume (a bottle of beer, for example) — and doesn’t specify a volume, they should be made aware of all serving volumes, including smaller amounts, either by being told verbally or directed towards a list or menu.

All venues should display the measures they serve alcohol in by way of a framed list mounted in a visible location. If it is clearly displayed then staff don't need to verbally tell the customer. Unless this has changed in the few years I left hospitality

Bottles of wine usually the norm for a table in my experience, sometimes they would check the first time asked, they would always keep cork/cap to make it more difficult I assume to take out with you

Bottles of spirits, I’ve never heard of this at a wedding, I'd say absolutely raise this with your guests and the hotel. How much would a bottle of Remy be in a hotel? £100?

OP, I would be advising your DSis to contact the venue and speak to the events coordinator/bar manager to say that you are unhappy with the fact that the staff were not only selling full bottles of spirits to guests, but were actively suggesting it to them and you would like an explanation as to why this wasn't flagged up to her/her DH as the hosts before the tab was run dry. I would also be informing them that I would be contacting the licencing department at the local council regarding the sale of full bottles to guests. I would also be pointing out that this experience has left you with a negative view of their professionalism (why didn't they clarify re: full bottle sales at any point, since you hadn't explicitly said yes? Why didn't they inform you before the tab was emptied? Etc) and that will be reflected in any review or recommendation you give of the venue as a whole.

This.

Piss takers both sides of the bar.