AIBU to want my mat leave plus promotion

[MiniPumpkin]

Need to post this to get some perspective or give my head a wobble.. whatever you all think ..
So been with large organisation for 10 years, promoted posts are few and far between, to put into context it has come up three times in the 10 years I’ve been there, including during my mat leave with dc1. Now on mat leave with dc2 it’s come up again. I want the job, always have and I’m pretty career driven but of course I also want my mat leave to continue. I want what I am entitled to which is my entire maternity leave. And I want promotion. If I get it they will want me back early.
I’m just sick of well, being female ? Woman’s careers are so disadvantaged if you ask me, I turned down a job (with another organisation) when ttc with dc1 as I wouldn’t get as good mat leave pay.. then of course you can’t go anywhere/leave when pregnant as you will lose the maternity pay. Now I feel I want this job but feel I will just be discriminated against, I wont get it as they will just say I didn’t do as well because they will no doubt prefer to give it to someone not on mat leave.
Not even sure of point in this post, I need somewhere to vent and get perspective. I feel like saying stuff it and just wait till my mat leave is over but who knows when the next opportunity will be and it really annoys me…

For OP - apply and see what happens. I was promoted on maternity leave and didn't have to return early but a friend of mine did.

As for taking your allowance. I took my full 52 weeks plus my saved holiday so was off 14 months for my son.

I didn't offer to share my leave, why should I? It's mine. I grew the baby, birthed it and breastfed it.

However, I do think men should be given longer paternity leave. It they could also take 52 weeks without requiring the mother to give up her leave it would level the playing field so much more. Not least because it's possible for men to have children much later in life than women.

Pregnancy affects women and women must have time off after birth to recover. Mat leave only affects women if they and their partner choose that outcome.

But we need to remember that there are structural barriers and deeply ingrained societal expectations that Influence these choices.

I'd recommend reading Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. Highly informative book.

How long have you got left on your mat leave? It's common in our industry that manager level will have 3 month notice periods. When you in include the interviewing and offering process it can easy be 4-4 1/2 months before the person starts in role.

If I were you I'd apply for the position. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. If you're the right candidate for the job then they should pick you. It makes good business sense if you're the best candidate, regardless of if you're on mat leave. Mat leave is such a transient status.

@Dexy007

“We need to do more to encourage men to take it”.

This bit is easy. Don’t have kids with men who won’t split pat leave with you. Add it to your list of non negotiables.

Men! Don’t have kids with women who think your place is out of the home and aren’t looking for an equal parent.

Equal partners in parenting does not mean having to share every job 50/50. My husband is most def an equal partner in parenting but he wasn't able to breastfeed our kids, nor did I want to share my leave with him.

I work in the city in a very demanding role, in a male dominated sector, and I am good at my job. I’m taking my full year and I was still promoted whilst on maternity leave. What we need is managers who realise valuable staff need to be retained and should not be discriminated for taking time out to have a family. You treat an employee well, and they’re more likely to work well for the employer. What we don’t need is to push the agenda that women should return to work asap or else their careers will suffer. It is that mindset that needs to be challenged, that encouraged.

This bit is easy. Don’t have kids with men who won’t split pat leave with you. Add it to your list of non negotiables.

Men! Don’t have kids with women who think your place is out of the home and aren’t looking for an equal parent.

But it's not easy though. If it was then we'd be seeing more that 2% of dads taking shared parental leave.
You're ignoring the structural barriers and societal expectations that actually restrict choices for women.

@PinkWednesdays

I work in the city in a very demanding role, in a male dominated sector, and I am good at my job. I’m taking my full year and I was still promoted whilst on maternity leave. What we need is managers who realise valuable staff need to be retained and should not be discriminated for taking time out to have a family. You treat an employee well, and they’re more likely to work well for the employer. What we don’t need is to push the agenda that women should return to work asap or else their careers will suffer. It is that mindset that needs to be challenged, that encouraged.

This!!!

In my company, if they thought your were stand out the best person for the job they'd wait. However if there was little between you and the other applicants then they'd go with the person who could start asap.
I see heir point to be honest.

[quote Dexy007]@BonnesVacances women must of course take the first few months of mat leave to recover. But it is the law in the UK (and has been for some time) that parents can split their parental leave as they see fit. The problem is that many parents don't want too. You do often see one parent wanting to stay off for a whole year even when the paid element of their parental leave has run out and they are on SMP/SPP.

And then the cycle the parents have created continues. The hierarchy has been established. The default parent (sick days, pick up, drop off) has been selected by the parents and it's hard to shake it off.

It is not that men 'get' to have children without their careers suffering it is that women start families with men who do not respect them and their career or that women voluntarily sacrifice their own career for their husband's.

I am not denying that sex based discrimination exists - god in my industry it is rife. But it is not the fault of the employer if a woman or a man chooses to stay home on parental leave for 12 m and let their spouse go back to work.[/quote]

This is a really good point.

So many people are crying sexism of this thread, but in the U.K. anyway, the law does facilitate splitting maternity leave so that you have time to bond with your baby but also show that your partner's career doesn't come before yours.

OP are you planning to split it at all?

*Its discriminating on the basis of sex because pregnancy and mat leave impacts women.

Men don't get pregnant so asinine comments about how men would be treated the same are irrelevant.*

People really seem to struggle with this, and with indirect discrimination.

Anyone who is disadvantaged because of anything to do with pregnancy or childbirth is being discriminated against because of their sex, because men don't get pregnant or have babies. It's an aspect of discrimination that can only affect women and is therefore discrimination because of sex.

@PinkWednesdays

I work in the city in a very demanding role, in a male dominated sector, and I am good at my job. I’m taking my full year and I was still promoted whilst on maternity leave. What we need is managers who realise valuable staff need to be retained and should not be discriminated for taking time out to have a family. You treat an employee well, and they’re more likely to work well for the employer. What we don’t need is to push the agenda that women should return to work asap or else their careers will suffer. It is that mindset that needs to be challenged, that encouraged.

In fact my team has a woman just come back from mat leave that my boss is putting up for promotion - she's the best hands down. The company gets to keep a valuable staff member who could leave for other companies for double the pay but chooses to stay because of how well she's been treated. It makes financial sense as well! Short term thinking harms all parties

Or maybe, instead of splitting maternity leave and force a woman to give up precious bonding time, especially if she’s breastfeeding, we could, I don’t know, increase paternity leave for men? Some firms in the city are actually starting to do this…

So many people are crying sexism of this thread, but in the U.K. anyway, the law does facilitate splitting maternity leave so that you have time to bond with your baby but also show that your partner's career doesn't come before yours.

It does, which is great. However, as humans we are influenced by a huge range of things and unfortunately societal expectations around the roles of men and women have yet to catch up with the law. We only have to look at what has happened during the pandemic to see examples of this.

@Crazycrazylady

In my company, if they thought your were stand out the best person for the job they'd wait. However if there was little between you and the other applicants then they'd go with the person who could start asap. I see heir point to be honest.

I'm actually curious as to how many jobs have standout appplicants? When you're borderline it isn't the mat leave itself that can affect things it's any number of small normally insignificant things. If two candidates were equal you can't say 'give it to the mat leave' candidate. Short of flipping a coin.... Mat leave candidate might not have gotten job anyway when it came down to the wire.

Again all very context dependent. In my company we have 'in-role' promotions and they go in specific cycles. As well as promoting people by creating new roles. The former is impossible if you're on any kind of leave during the cycle because it's about the job roles that specific cycle. And also about promoting the specific person rather than filling a role.

It's not discrimination if they need someone to start in the role now and you're not available to do that, regardless of the reason.

The 'I grew the baby, birthed it and breastfeed it' applies to millions of women the world over, whether they have a few weeks, months or a whole year of ML! It applied to me when I had my dc thirty years ago and was back at work (and bf) after 3 months.

It's really important not to conflate the issues here. If a mother is determined to take the whole year ML herself then that's her right, but in the case of the OP, who said she feels fed up being a woman, and wants to feel on an equal footing, it seems bizarre to not use the transferable leave option.

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

Argh, I can absolutely see both sides. Yes women are disadvantaged, and the normal career-building trajectory totally clashes with fertility. I hate all the ways in which women are unnecessarily held back through motherhood, including mat pay considerations and the assumption that mothers aren't professionally ambitious etc.

However... on this point I can see why they wouldn't want to hold it for you, too. I would still apply, because they might! And might be able to simultaneously recruit your maternity cover through the same round, I've been in this position myself. And also because signalling ambition is generally useful (IME anyway - YMMV as imagine there are nuances to this).

I have known women who've cut short their mat leave for promotion opportunities - it's a price I would never be willing to pay, but these are women who will go further faster in their career than me. 🤷🏼‍♀️

It sucks OP. I would apply though!

Good post

But it is not the fault of the employer if a woman or a man chooses to stay home on parental leave for 12 m and let their spouse go back to work

But some women, eg those who have particularly difficult births or PND, may need that full 12 months to recover completely. It is discriminatory to treat an employee differently if that is the case, because these things only affect women.

@GattoFantastico

The 'I grew the baby, birthed it and breastfeed it' applies to millions of women the world over, whether they have a few weeks, months or a whole year of ML! It applied to me when I had my dc thirty years ago and was back at work (and bf) after 3 months.

It's really important not to conflate the issues here. If a mother is determined to take the whole year ML herself then that's her right, but in the case of the OP, who said she feels fed up being a woman, and wants to feel on an equal footing, it seems bizarre to not use the transferable leave option.

The interesting point is though - what is deemed an 'acceptable' level of ML? It may be in the future but at the current time nobody would consider 3 years for example. Who decided that a year was the magical number as opposed to say 6 months?

It will always be a question of supply and demand of course. Women with valuable skills will get whatever they want but for the rest of the populace.... I can see the point that taking a full year off is a choice but equally is it really

@SinoohXaenaHide

If you are the right person for thr job and they are a decent nom-sexist employer you will get the job and they will keep the position open for you until your return. If the role absolutely must be filled at all times they may well appoint a temp maternity cover from amomg the seconf-rate runnee up candidates.

If this isn't what happens then they don't deserve to keep you and your talents so make plans to jobseek elsewhere if you aren't offered the promotion.

It's neither sexist nor 'undeserving' for employers not to have to wait for a more senior role to be filled for 6 months or more while someone chooses to take parental leave, which can be shared with the other parent. More sexist to assume that it has to be the women taking the full period.

I think op should absolutely apply and be considered alongside other applicants. If it's a matter of waiting 3 months they should do it. Doesn't mean she has the absolute right.

This idea of women “giving up precious bonding time”. It’s not going in the bin, it’s going to the child’s other parent! No one is suggesting “oh you get 6 months paid but why don’t you go back at 3 months and send the kid to nursery”.

Can you not swap over and your husband take SPL?

I was in a similar situation. Work called me 8 months in to say things had fallen apart in my absence. They offered me 4 days a week and a pay rise which would mean I was earning more than I was on 5 days. I did some soul searching and decided the best thing for my family long term was me returning early and DH taking over at home.

I wanted to stay at home with my baby until 12 months, but for the sake of 4 months I was going to give up the opportunity to give us financial security for years to come, plus it meant I would get one day a week with him ongoing rather than having to go back full time.

From recent experience I’d say listen to your head as well as your heart. You are never going to feel like you want to go back to work, so I say go for the promotion and see what they say. You have nothing to lose.

@PinkWednesdays
“I work in the city in a very demanding role, in a male dominated sector, and I am good at my job. I’m taking my full year and I was still promoted whilst on maternity leave. What we need is managers who realise valuable staff need to be retained and should not be discriminated for taking time out to have a family. You treat an employee well, and they’re more likely to work well for the employer. What we don’t need is to push the agenda that women should return to work asap or else their careers will suffer. It is that mindset that needs to be challenged, that encouraged.”

Absolutely this. I work in the same environment and recently had to take extended leave due to a seriously unwell child, following maternity. I have been back in the office a few months, but I was off for almost two years. That child still requires extensive care, however my employer has not pressured me to return/assumed I wouldn’t be back/push any agenda. In fact, they haven’t batted an eyelid. I am not treated any differently, and I hugely appreciate this.

You're dead right.

Apply. Really push yourself and your application forward in a way that reminds them how driven you are, how much you've wanted this and for how long and how good you are. Don't allow them to ignore and sideline you.

If you're the right person, you should get the job (and probably will, unless they're inclined to act illegally).

Their bigger concern would be whether you're actually going back at all, or going back full time. A few months mat leave is nothing, for the right person. Think about it. What if another applicant had a three month notice period? The cost of employing the wrong person is far. far greater than a slightly slower start to the role.

@Ericaequites

You choose to have two children and have two maternity leaves. If you are out on maternity, it’s unlikely you will be offered a promotion when they need someone now. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

This sort of sexist claptrap is a disgrace. It would never, ever be said to a man who was a new dad and went for a promotion. In fact, he'd be patted on the back for providing for his family. I can see it now, all the office banter about him having to be responsible now.

You are entitled by law to have your maternity leave, as well as go for the promotion. It is entirely your decision when you come back from maternity leave, not an employers. And they would be breaking the law to discriminate against you as a new mother. That's a fact, nothing to do with wanting to eat your cake.

(Of course, in reality plenty of employers discriminate against women and especially mothers, they just pretend it's for another reason)