in being upset (pissed off) with parents who bring their obviuosly sick children to the nursery?

[QuintessentialShadowOfSnowball]

Shouldnt a child that is coughing his guts out be home? Or with rosy red feverish cheeks? Why do some parents think it is ok to lumber nursery staff with children so ill they need carrying around all the time? Why do they think it ok to keep passing on the germs to other peoples children?

This is all a very interesting subject and one that really affects every one of us whether or not we work or SAHM.

My youngest dd starts school in September 08. I would dearly love to get back into a normal job again (I currently work very flexi-hours during evenings and weekends) but my biggest worries are:

1. Who will employ me and allow me to book all the half-term holidays/teacher training days off?

1. Who will employ me who will allow me the short-notice time off when the children are ill - which could be a case of them being off for days at a time?

I have no-one who could step in and care for either of the dds when they are ill/off school - dh works very long hours and is often away.

I loved working full-time pre-kids and would love to get back into that after having been at home for the last 9yrs and I don't want to continue working evenings/weekends anymore but how do I do it?

Haven't read all the thread I'm afraid but my first thought was that the OP could have been written by one of the staff in my son's nursery about me!! He has had a cold for about 4 weeks now. He coughs like he is about to die (on and off), and is miserable and wants cuddles. If he's at home with me he is fine. What am i meant to do? I can't take 4 weeks off work because my son has a cold. The nursery are being paid about 7k a year to look after him. When I keep him at home he is fine, not even ill in bed so I can work at home! So yes, I think you are being unreasonable...

I just don't know the answer.

No employer is going to be rushing to take on an employee with that list, are they?

It really does seem for parents (usually mothers) that there is work pre-DCs and post-DCs and the two are polar opposites.

The only people who seem to be able to really make it work are the self-employed. But that can end up as a famine and feast which is useless for covering mortgages/rents etc.

No I guess not but it's like saying 'yes, I'm ideal for the job you're offering but unfortunately I come with baggage - 2 children in school'.....

I don't think it's possible to accuse the OP of being unreasonable. I understand that long-term colds can present symptoms to onlookers that appear worse than they are, and I agree that it's impossible to take four weeks off work.

I guess what we're searching for is a solution to the age old problem of work and sickness. There isn't a mother alive, I'm sure, who wouldn't prefer to be at home with their sick child, but I think there's been a general consensus about colds (however grim).

There have been posts on this thread about children with vomiting bugs, etc., and that's in no way right.

There's soldiering on, and there's being genuinely too ill to be anywhere else but home.

So that's my hopes and wishes of re-launching my career doomed for the next ten years until such time as the youngest can look after herself...that'll make me 50yrs old and who will want me as compared to someone just out of college/university?

I know there'll be people reading this and probably thinking - it was your choice to have children and don't be so selfish but I have this real desire to get back into work - back into the buzz of working and enjoying adult company - having a laugh and generally feeling part of a workforce again.

Cough and cold for 4 weeks - I'd say that's perfectly ok to go to nursery with but if the child is running a temperature then that child shouldn't, imo, be in nursery/school. It's a clear indication the child is fighting an infection.

Big long thread. No time to read so I am probably going to repeat what others have said but surely, at this time of year. almost everyone's either pre-ill, ill or just post-ill. MIght as well get the bugs and process them. Good for the immune system and gets them out of the way in time for Christmas.

Unless you want to live in a bubble or as a hermit, you're not going to avoid the community illnesses and they'll do you good in the scheme of things.

So many factors have brought about this situation.

Older mothers (like me) result in older grandparents who are not as able to cover childcare if a child is ill.

Grandparents who in any case (like mine) live at the other end of the country.

Aunts, uncles etc who also have to go to work so can't help with childcare.

These must be major factors. For most parents there is simply no one who can cover childcare for them if a child is too ill to be at nursery.

Mincepie....yep, that's why both my kids have been ill since the end of October...bugs flitting between the two of them...sickness, diarrhoea, coughs, colds, very high temps, chicken pox and laryngitus...hence why dd1 was rushed into hospital last week and both have been off school more than in school for the last 8wks.

I've given up with dd2 - I got so fed up with her keep bringing this bug, that bug home that I booked her out of nursery until the New Year.

DD1 went back to school this afternoon and she hopes to do a full day tomorrow.

I agree - we can't live in a bubble but if only parents would keep their kids off school/nursery when they are ill and infectious we wouldn't have the problems I have had for the last few weeks with my two.

Bauble it's the same for me. There's no-one at all to help with child care.

I'm going to say something controversial so I'd better point out that it's not meant to be directed at anyone in particular ...

Deep breath ...

If kids ate better they would fight off these bugs quicker. Around 90% of the kids who come home to eat tea at my house turn their noses up at the veg or at anything even vaguely unfamiliar. My kids eat really well at home and at other peoples houses.

They hardly eat sweets (only at parties and when dotty relatives bring them) and we don't do processed food.

The eating habits of other peoples kids shock me and I think it takes its toll on the immune system.

I will give you the answer:

Council houses for everyone, not just the poor

Fathers in work all of the time for at least treble the rent of the council house.

Free nursery for all of the Mums from the age of 5. Any earlier is just dismissing the fact that I am looking for Mums to be able to stay at home.

Welfare for Mums whose partners left them.

Thats a start, anyone want to help me here?

Sorry the free nursery and toddler care should have been up until the age of 5. YOu should have 15 hours credit and be able to use them as you wish.

Actually you should have 20 hours credit, all free and be able to use as you wish.

Not controversial at all Mincepie I'd agree with you TBH, a lot of these sickly kids are poor eaters & have a crap diet.

(not yours Whispy I know their problems have been a long running thing & with other factors )

I also think that's a generational thing as we don't have enough basic food & nutrition & good old fashioned Home Economics taught now in schools, so we are now seeing a second generation who only know "ping dinners" even if they do have an interest. Not bad parenting just lack of skills.

Fizzbizz, we registered with emergency childcare in order to cover instances of sickness etc in the unlikely event that neither DH nor I could take extended time off from work.

Under those circumstances, they would provide either a nanny or childminder at short notice. It would be costly (nanny would be about £60 per day and a childminder about £30) but if it means remaining in employment, so be it.

They contact me periodically as part of their customer care service but fortunately, I have not had to use them yet. Interestingly, it was my organisation who alerted its employees to this scheme.

I personally think that I am more likely to use them when the DTS start school.

HTH

WRT free nursery care. I am a nursery owner and would be more than happy to provide 'free at the point of delivery' care if the govt would fund it.

What is happening at present is that the govt is telling parents that they have the right to 12.5 hours free care a week and then not funding it completely. The nursery funding is the same nationwide with no account taken of higher overheads in London, the SE and other major cities.

Actually, I wish the govt would stop quoting 'hours' and just tell parents that they have £1500 per year towards the cost of nursery care.

In addition, in our area the local council has acknowledged that it costs £6.60 to provide an hour's care at a London state/Sure Start nursery, but expects private businesses to provide the same level of care for £3.20 per hour.

We then have Beverly Hughes blaming 'greedy' nursery owners for charging top-up fees.

i'm a WOHM, full time. DS is usually in tip top form, so i'm very lucky. however, today he's got a cough and is a bit warm, though not feverish (checked temp) was dithering about what to do then he promptly thrw up on the floor, that was the deciding factor. so hastily snatched work e mails for me in between DS hogging computer to play thomas the tank engine games.

as a WOHM i can see both sides, i can't take time off for sniffles, but then get pee-d off when people knowingly bring their kids in with e.g conjunctivitis, which means i have to take time off when DS comes down with it as nursery won't have him and i don't want to put other parents in my predicament. i think colds and coughs where the child is generally well and nursery will admit them is fine. obviously nurseries with kids with special medical needs are different as coughs and colds can seriously affect children who are already struggling with medical conditions.

Mincepie - your post re diet - I completely agree with. Both my kids eat extremely well - I'm lucky - they will eat every vegetable and pretty much most fruit. We don't do processed food either. When we have kids home for tea I have to go out and buy something for them because they won't eat what I'd normally cook. Both my kids have vitamin supplements and both get the usual 12hrs sleep. YET!.....They still get the bugs that circulate school/nursery.

I've often wondered if I fed them rubbish would they escape the bugs?

Re that emergency care during illness cover, I think my big problem with that, is that when my kids are ill, they want me, not a stranger they've never met before. The only other person I could consider leaving them with when they're ill, is my mother or a couple of very good friends, who know the children really well and who can provide the comfort a sick child needs. I think a day feeling grotty with an adult they don't know, would be worse than going to school for my two, I really do. They would hate it. And tbh I wouldn't feel too great about it either. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my well children with someone I've not met before, let alone my sick child.

Please don't take this is a criticism Spokette, I firmly believe everyone makes their own choices and other people can bugger off and the fact that I wouldn't be happy with it for my family does not imply any criticism of anyone else who would be perfectly happy with it. But I would not like to see this being put forward as "the obvious solution" by practical policy-makers, bosses etc. I can imagine mothers like me being regarded as awkward prima donnas if we felt uncomfortable about taking up this very practical, obvious solution. I can see New Labour getting very enthusiastic about something like this, as if they subsidised it, they could solve the problem of mothers having to take time off work for sick children in a stroke. They wouldn't solve the problem of mothers and children being unhappy about the solution though; but then, they're not very interested in people being happy, just people being productive, so I suppose that would be irrelevant.

I think the main problem with emergency child care is the cost! £16 an hour in our area.

Reallytired's eyes water...at the cost

But if it were reduced and subsidised (like after school clubs) there would be no excuse not to use it. You would be seen as hysterical and difficult if you declined it and wanted to take the time off work instead.

(Mind you, thinking about it, they would never put enough money into making it really work. There's a thread going at the mo about an after school club closing down due to lack of funds and the govt. demanding that nurseries do the job on half the amount they need to do it properly. They'll only ever talk the talk re providing childcare, won't they?)

There are some very interesting points brought up.

I am from Norway, and things work a little differently there. There is very little unemployment, and a high demand for nurses and teachers and key personell, so much so that they are recruiting nurses and doctors from abroad to fill positions. Adults are needed in the work force. To ensure that there is enough people to fill jobs, women are counted on to return to work when they have kids.

Maternity leave is either 12 months at 80% pay and a guarantee to get at least similar position but at same pay when you return, or 10 months at 100% salary. Women are therefore home with the kids till the child is either 10 months or one year. As soon as the baby is born they apply for a nursery place at a convenient nursery to ensure the place is ready for them when maternity leave is up. This is a full time place, subsidised by the government, costing £140 per month fixed price across the entire country.
Whether you are a single parent or not, you work, your child has a nursery place that cost very little. Starting salaries for teachers were £40k 5 years ago when I last checked it, nurses in the same bracket, when I last checked it.

There is also a 35 hour week (by law you cant work more). So you drop off your child for 8.30, to be in work for 9, and then you pick up from the nursery around 4.30, as most people work 9-4. This means you have no need for nannies or au pairs, and there are very few child minders. The after school club is there for all children to enter when school finnished, with teachers present to help with homework, and arts and crafts, or netball, or just free play.

I dont know if parental leave is paid or not, I will have to find out.

What an intelligent system!

I have a Finnish friend and she describes something similar.

The system in Norway sounds bliss.