in being upset (pissed off) with parents who bring their obviuosly sick children to the nursery?

[QuintessentialShadowOfSnowball]

Shouldnt a child that is coughing his guts out be home? Or with rosy red feverish cheeks? Why do some parents think it is ok to lumber nursery staff with children so ill they need carrying around all the time? Why do they think it ok to keep passing on the germs to other peoples children?

i think you should get sick pay for when your kids are ill too. it's unavoidable as is being sick yourself.

and you should be allowed it up until your child is at least 11 imo.

i never got to stay at home with a temperature if it was managable with calpol and i still felt ok - not lethargic or anything.

My mum would send me to school with a temperature if I had a cold, and a cold was all it was. Because you do get a slight temperature if you have a cold, as the body is fighting off the virus.

It is different if the child has a high temperature as that is often indicative of an infection that needs medical attention. Aside from that, from the childs persepctive, having a temperature is miserable and it shouldnt have to struggle on in a nursery setting.

Quattrocento, yes, keeping a child of from nursery/school with merely a cold is not what this is about.

And by that I meant a high temperature, if you start going above 37.9 and up in the 38s.

But as my gp wisely said, dont look at the temperature, look at the child. If the child is well with the temperature leave it, but if you are really sick you will feel and look miserable even if your temperature is not very high.

Addicted that is a lovely thought but what about workers with no dependant children?

They are often resentful enough about parental leave without that as extra reason to gripe!

Basically if you work whether through choice or need then you have to be prepared to juggle childcare & that means having someone to help you out other than nursery/CM's whether it's family or if you're a lone parent getting together with a friend to cover each others kids.

Sad but true fact of life!

yes but you could say what about the workers who are never sick. and i'm sure when they do have children they would appreciate it.

Hi

Only to make a point about the nurseries apparently allowing sick kids on the premises - my neighbour has her LO in her works on-site nursery from 7am -7pm now. She only works 20 hours per week .(Nursery is on hospital grounds right next door).
2 weeks ago her little one was very poorly, continually coughing also D & V . Mum insisted on taking him each day regardless.
Nursery unhappy and phoned for him to be collected 2 days in a row . He was not collected until regular leaving time - each time they were told "just to give more Calpol" . 3rd day Nursery call at 10am very unhappy at continually being left with this clearly very unwell child. Refused collection , they called twice more and at 11.30 am got Mum`s boss . Boss explained Mum had gone for lunch but he would be willing to collect little one and wait in carpark until Mum returned with a view to sending her home asap to attend to child. Nursery agree as they know him, he has child there also etc and carer is happy to stand with him for the 15 mins expected until Mum returns so no security issues IYSWIM (Note Boss is more than happy for Mum to go home with sick child)
Boss is horrified to discover this has been going on for three days . Mum returns and goes "mad" at Boss and nursery making plans on her behalf . Refuses to take child home - she is paying for them to care for child.

Boss becomes extremely irate as Mum in her work at the hospital is in contact with extremely ill children all day - in no shape or form should these patients be exposed to known additional sick factors. He states that his staffing levels and budget are such that sick leave of staff to protect the patients is catered for.

Sorry if this is long but just wanted to defend nurseries position . Some nurseries cannot get some parents to come for child and are in a very difficult position.

Also want to make the point that the above recount of the story is direct from Mum herself , who visited me to let off steam about the Nursery "not doing the job it is paid to do".

Very difficult for staff sometimes

Babbi. Thank you for a very good and illuminating account of what actually goes on in many nurseries. My sons nursery included. I saw a little girl laying feverish and drowsy in the book corner both at drop off and pick up time, and I exclaimed to the manager, "Good grief is X still here?" The reply? "We have called mum, we have called dad, we have called next of kin, nobody wants to come and pick her up, they are busy in work. What can we do but give calpol and hope it is not contageous".

I think those who stick their necks out and call others shameful and lacking in empathy for openly criticising this sort of behaviour have an incredible selfish and la la la I am not NOT listening attitude.

That story is so sad Babbi.
I don't mind my children picking up bugs from school as long as they are not of the serious kind. Coughs,colds and the other things of that sort are just part of every day life. D&V can be worrying for a couple of my children but in the main it's just a nuisance.
I do feel very sorry for children who are sent to nursery/school when it's patently obvious to anyone that they should really be at home.
Parents who are in paid employment should really have back up plans for when their children are sick. If you have children then they are your responsibility and it's up to you to make arrangements for them. Not the school, not the nursery, not the gov't. And while a lot of things could/should be changed to help family life at the present time things are as they are but your children and the possibility that they may get sick has to be taken into account with any plans that are made.

Sending a child to nursery with a bit of a cold, bit of a cough is fine.
I do it.
Not fine, if child is clearly 'ILL'
Am not shcoked by Babbi's story.
But my nursery does not do such things.
The other parents should insist that Nursery deals with the parents more severly - calls them in and makes them understandthat if Nursery rings, child must be collected immediately.
My nursery never needed to explain this to me !
But it is up to the nursery, not to let these parents take the mick.

SUCH NURSERIES SHOULD TOUGHEN UP

If I was a Nursery Manager, and parents did not comply with our wishes / rules etc. You take them to task. SURELY ?

Yes Oblomov, and that is just the point, how can they take the parents to task, threatening to "sack" the child? So what, the parents would just go and search for another nursery, there is plenty of them, at least around where I live competition between nurseries are fierce. Hence my stance that some nurseries are just "too money grabbing" to change this. It is a nuisance for them, but they rather put up with it than losing revenue. And who sufferes in the end? The children.

Yes Snowball it is true, - money money money, No one gives a s**t, in a rich man's world.
I would move ds, if a nursery regularly put up with this nonsense from other parents.

TBH if that child had come back on the second day having been sent home, I would have refused to have her -poor child- I have turned parents away on the doorstep if their DC is clearly unwell,then the parent has no choice. I have never had to enforce a termination of contract but if a parent did as in babbi's story I would put it in writing that it was unnacceptable, & if that EVER happened again I would refuse the child admission & give the parent a month's notice.
TBH I would rather forgo the months money & tell her to get lost!!!

That particular nursery may well be tied in to the hospital/company therefore have less say over who they have & who they don't!

bossy, tied into the hospiatl/co ?
That doesn't stop the nursery telling parents that something is unacceptable/ inappropriate, whatever-word-we-choose, surely ?

"if you work whether through choice or need then you have to be prepared to juggle childcare & that means having someone to help you out other than nursery/CM's whether it's family or if you're a lone parent getting together with a friend to cover each others kids".

Well Bossy, I hope you'll be telling that to the government. Because from 2010, lone parents will be forced to get paid jobs, whether or not they have friends or family to cover in sickness emergencies. I don't have anyone who would, all my friends - guess what - have jobs! (Except the one with MS and the one whose older DS is autistic, who can't do it for obvious reasons.) All my family have jobs, apart from my 74 year old mother who lives 30 miles away. Yes I have acquaintances and women I am friendly with, but no-one I know so well that I can ask them in an emergency to look after my sick child. I can probably ask them to look after my well child for a couple of hours in an emergency, but a sick child for the whole day - no, there is no-one. So shoot me.

I get round it by having a part time job with flexi-time so that I can juggle. The Tories are saying that LP's should be made to get full time jobs - which by definition, they won't be able to juggle. I hope that you and other people who feel so strongly about this issue, will be telling them why they are so wrong on this.

Agreed Oblomov- just a thought as to why the nursery might be dithering, still unacceptable IMHO!

Of course I do LittleBella I'm constantly writing letters about this very thing!

But we're are dealing in the here & now & TBH I don't think a govt initiative along those lines would work in practice but it's a good votes-winner for some. Sorry but I still think it's the parents responsibility to have their sick child not the childcarer. If you have no family back -up or friends to rely on then it is certainly very difficult & I sympathise but this is one of the issues one has to consider when working. I find it interesting you wouldn't ask a friend to have your sick child but presumably your child carer would be asked to do the same?

No, I personally wouldn't ask a childcarer to have a sick child. But tbh, apart from a couple of very close friends or their grandmother, I really don't think it would be fair on my dc's to leave them with anyone but me if they were really unwell (I must stress again that I'm not talking about a bit of a cold).

But I accept that in most jobs, I would risk getting the sack for that if it happened too often, and that under government plans, as I would be intentionally jobless, I would not be entitled to claim benefit. Which would of course, be disastrous for my children - far more disastrous than an unhappy, miserable day at school. And of course, in that situation I would have to weigh up very carefully the short term and long term welfare of the child and the family. I just hope I'm never in that situation and I'm appalled that people in power think it's OK.

Sorry, but you can't say that it is the parent's responsibility to arrange childcare, if the government is forcing that parent into a situation where the parent doesn't have control. Responsiblity without control is something that happens to middle managers in badly run companies. It shouldn't be happening to families and I hope it never does. Glad to hear you're nagging those in power btw!

Interesting to read that what has been put in on this thread today is pretty much what I put yesterday and I was called 'nasty', 'shameful', 'thoughtless' and 'bitchy'.......

Interesting to note also that those who decided to reply to my posts, using those above mentioned phrases haven't come back today. ....and nor have those who accused me of being judgmental!

"Sorry, but you can't say that it is the parent's responsibility to arrange childcare"

Then who's is it???

The govt is NOT forcing people to work-if & when they do(& I really do believe it won't happen as it is unenforcable) then we'll have this discusion again.

I have always maintained children are a blessing not an entitlement & no-one as the "right" to demand childcare as a given.

Yes it can be very difficult to be a lone parent on benefits but it is not impossible
& many mothers do a great job,albeit with a struggle,either by staying at home or doing part-time jobs around their families. It's what you have to do when you're a mum & yes it's bloody unfair at times but that's the reality of motherhood.

I work at a nursery where we continually have parents sending their children in ill. Our policy is that if the child is too unwell to join in and play with the others or has a fever, sickness or diarrhoea then we call the parent.

We expect a certain level of colds and snot and would not expect parents to keep their child at home for the less serious symptoms (cough, runny nose etc). All of us are trained to recognise the symptoms of more serious conditions. I have found that my resistance to germs has increased and I only ever get a cold in Nov/dec where before working with children I got ill all the time!! so it ain't all bad!

As a parent I allow 24 hrs clear after a fever, 48hrs clear after sickness/diarrhoea before returning my son to school. Otherwise I judge on whether or not he is well enough to get anything out of being at school.

The occasional incident of a parent with a bad attitude does not mean that everyone who sends an unwell child to nursery is selfish and uncaring: most of them do it because they know they can't take any more time off and there is no one else to help. I'm also unimpressed with a nursery that moans to one parent about how other parents whose children are there behave: not exactly good customer care, is it?
I was once called to collect DS from nursery because he had a fever: I had taken him there that morning with a bit of a cold and he developed the fever during the day. Unfortunately I was at the other side of town and dependent on not very good public transport to go and get him, so it took me about an hour and a half from the phone call to actually arriving at the nursery - I don't think the staff spent the intervening time slagging me off to any other parents they saw. I should certainly hope not.