We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

But not every woman spends around £1000 to breastfeed. And when you factor in the cost of formula, bottles, sterilising equipment and other associated paraphernalia (like perfect prep machines) the cost is comparable anyway.

If you found the emotional cost too much, that’s where that all important choice comes in.

[quote Yoyomelon]@JadeTrinket obviously there are people who's bodies don't work like they are supposed to but there is no way that cases like yours make any kind of dent in the 76% of people that don't breastfeed.
Our bodies are made to do it like a heart beating or lungs breathing. Cases where no milk is produced are really really rare.[/quote]
Haha yes I had this drilled into by NCT 'if you can grow a baby, you can birth a baby and you can feed a baby!' Turns out after 4 miscarriages, 2 sections and 2 abandoned attempts at breastfeeding I was barely able to do any of the 3 that apparently come so easily to all of us

@Katieandthekids

Ugh everyone knows the benefits. I tortured myself to feed my twins by breastfeeding. When I see their little mate twins now whose mums didn't put themselves through this shit I wonder why

At least you can rest assured in the knowledge that your children have superior thymus glands?

@Magicalwoodlands

I think a lot of women mistake the initial colostrum for no milk.

Yes. The women I've supported have been majorly panicking because they can't express with a pump on day 2 or 3, and are only getting a couple of drops collecting on their nipple. Not realising this is normal/ expected.

There are obviously some women who do not produce milk - insufficient breast tissue is rarely the reason, hypothalamus and pituitary issues more likely. Somewhere around 0.1-1% are the official statistics. Lack of milk production is higher in more developed countries due formula use during critical periods of milk production, but that's not true milk production failure - it's the result of medical services wanting to be able to discharge women quickly and absolutely NOT the fault of the mother's themselves who are following what they believe to be appropriate and accurate advice. And the advice IS accurate if the result you want is an infant gaining weight, but is not appropriate advice for increased success in breastfeeding. I think often NHS healthcare professionals and mothers have different goals to the each other and this isn't fully understood (or made clear by the HCP).

@Magicalwoodlands

I’m not a huge fan of the ‘baby moon’ suggestion, as it doesn’t help a poor latch, which is the main barrier.

However, if cost is the deciding factor, formula is far more expensive than the things you mention above.

Also, what do you do with existing children when you're having your baby moon? Tell your toddler to go and make their own porridge because mummy has to lie around in bed for 3 days? I doubt it.

[quote Silverclasp]@Whatiswrongwithmyknee actually they did say that about him. He committed suicide[/quote]
I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like people were horribly judgmental about him? Were they also judgmental of you? I hope not as you shouldn't have had to go through that.

Thankfully, most people who feel sad when they see pictures of other's families do not feel like that are being told that the death was because of their own personality flaws. I have very little family left and certainly that's how I feel. I don't feel like people are saying it was my fault that my mum and SIL died of cancer. However, when people try and 'educate me' by telling me things about breastfeeding, I do feel judged. I was 100% wanting to breast feed and a 100% of the belief that it would have been the best option in terms of nutrition and future health. That seems to be the case for most people here so the persistent attempts to change people's actions just feels like people are saying that 'you'd BF if only you properly understand the benefits'.

Lack of milk production is higher in more developed countries due formula use during critical periods of milk production, but that's not true milk production failure - it's the result of medical services wanting to be able to discharge women quickly and absolutely NOT the fault of the mother's themselves who are following what they believe to be appropriate and accurate advice.

Excellent point. I asked to stay in longer with my second in order to try and establish BF given how badly it went with my first. They let me stay one night and gave what help they could during that night. Had I stayed in for a week maybe things would have been different as there was no support from anyone at home.

@Magicalwoodlands

But not every woman spends around £1000 to breastfeed. And when you factor in the cost of formula, bottles, sterilising equipment and other associated paraphernalia (like perfect prep machines) the cost is comparable anyway.

If you found the emotional cost too much, that’s where that all important choice comes in.

No of course not, i was one of those who had difficulties. Tongue tie isn’t that rare though and we knows nhs wait times are long, divisons are often not done adequately and then there is the issue of getting the diagnosis in the first place. I don’t think my experience is all that uncommon and there is no way a low income family could have afforded it, especially when there are vouchers for formula.

Because I’d spent so much god damn cash and it was such a battle I carried on until 2 but it’s a naive statement to say ‘breastfeeding is cheaper’

Also, what do you do with existing children when you're having your baby moon?

Mine was in nursery during the day and DH made dinner, but I'd had c section so wasn't really up to making dinner and doing bath time on day 3 anyway! Appreciate not everyone has a second adult though.

But breastfeeding is cheaper. I absolutely agree that nhs care should be better and I also couldn’t agree more that in initial outlay costs, breastfeeding can cost more. But formula and bottles are costly. The formula companies make an incredible profit for this very reason.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee you are assuming that there are lots of people on OPs Facebook page (or whatever) who desperately wanted to breastfeed but could not do so..... I don't buy that. I would put good money on it that the majority of those on her page who are not breastfeeding chose not to do so (the right decisionfor them and their family). Just because you "feel judged" by a science article doesn't mean that people should not share information that they find interesting. If we were to stop doing things for fear one person might be sensitive to it we wouldn't leave the house.

magicalwoodlands I'd say I spent around £1000 breastfeeding - mainly on nursing bras, I didn't fit in my normal ones. Plus breast pads. I also bought a haaka pump.

I didn't buy much at all in comparison to most people (no breastfeeding clothes, no expensive pump, or lactation consultant) but it certainly added up. And most people that breastfeed buy bottles and a steriliser as well for the times they want to go out or 'just in case'. I worked out I saved around £60 Vs formula.

*I spent double that on feeding bras, breastfeeding vests etc, breast pads, nipple creams etc whilst I was still pregnant and thinking I’d be able to manage it. Plus the pump we bought - can’t even bring myself to think how much that was now, hundreds.
*
Bloody hell that's too much. Other than a bit of extra food, I just got reusable pads (£12) and 2 bottles, 2 milk containers. Bras 2 for £20. Passed down nipple cream which I never even needed

No pumps, disposable pads etc. for me.

Anyway, in regards to cost of formula: i much prefer to an extra £10 of food for myself (and get "free" milk) per week, than spend it on tins - if I'm going to be paying anyway!

£1000 on nursing bras!? How many did you buy?

I think I actually spent less on food, didn’t get a bloody chance to eat! I’m not sure it’s very healthy, though!

@Magicalwoodlands

But breastfeeding is cheaper. I absolutely agree that nhs care should be better and I also couldn’t agree more that in initial outlay costs, breastfeeding can cost more. But formula and bottles are costly. The formula companies make an incredible profit for this very reason.

That was just my point the initial costs can be preventative

There's the people like me who spent all the money on breast pumps and maternity bras/pads, a steam steriliser for bottles of expressed milk etc believing BF would be a breeze then buying bottles and formula when it wasn't...

@Magicalwoodlands
I have a direct comparison. I did 50/50 BF/FF for the first year. I could see each week how much each was costing as I'd budgeted maternity leave carefully. As I said above - the basic cost of each is roughly the same. Nowhere near 'free'.

As soon as you add in all the extra costs of BFing it skyrockets. Those extra costs will vary between families. I have some friends who insist it was free as they have the income level to absorb increased food bills without noticing and wouldn't count clothes purchased as they'd buy some each year anyway.

A lower income family would struggle to find the money for those sudden costs when you run into problems. Even producing £20 to rent a pump for a week would be prohibitive for some. Our BFing experience was having to fork out £200+ in the first fortnight which we hadn't budgeted for at all and entirely because of EBFing.

Instead of being told antenatally that BFing is free, it would be preferable to have information about possible costs- you may find your food costs go up, you'll probably need some nipple cream (I was horrified to discover how much this cost!), if you run into problems you will probably need to use a pump which can cost £xxx, although you may be able to rent one at £x cost from xxx, you may find you need to purchase some different clothes (again, this is really dependent on the season, what you normally wear, whether you've got tiny or huge boobs etc).

I assumed £1000 was a typo and they meant £100. I can understand the cost racking up if you’re paying lacto consultants and tt practitioners (which should be available on the nhs but I know the wait lists are ridiculous) but outside of that HOW?! I bought 2 nursing bras (£12 each) that were so supportive that I wore them for about 2 years after I stopped feeding, a couple of jojo nursing tops (but they are absolutely not necessary) and a pump that was about £70, and a few bottles. I would have had to buy new bras and tops anyway to fit my post birth body so don’t even count that as a specific b/f cost.

Yes - but @RidingMyBike, you are doing that from your own experience. I’m not saying you are wrong, but I am saying that won’t apply to every woman who breastfeeds. It’s misleading to say that breastfeeding is comparable in cost to formula: it isn’t. It is accurate to say that lactation consultants make a significant profit, I’m sure, but not every woman who breastfeeds will go down that route, or buy maternity bras, or a breast pump, or similar.

No one is saying formula is a "lifestyle choice". And saying it needs to be used under advice of a healthcare professional and calling it, God forbid, an "intervention" implies that its some sort of controlled substance or something dangerous.

I didn’t imply anything like that.
The biological norm for a human baby is breastmilk. Formula is there for when breastmilk isn’t available. Support should be provided and formula is quite a way down the list of things to try.

But the formula companies have promoted it like a lifestyle choice, like asking if you want coffee or tea. Breast or formula? White or brown sugar? They’ve sent a message and influenced our entire culture that the starting point is feeding choice and that they’re equivalent.

The starting point is the baby’s needs. Then formula is there for when difficulties arise that can’t be solved any other way. But the formula companies just want to sell as much as possible to make more profit. They don’t care about the health of women and babies.

Everyone deserves compassion and support. That doesn’t mean we should stop talking about evidence and facts. Of course ultimately people are free to choose to do whatever they want.

For comparison all my friends that were ff were spending 30/40 per week on formula, at least once baby hit 6 months and beyond.

I did buy a £200 breast pump as I did so want to breastfeed but couldn’t latch for love nor money (literally) and expressing was the next best thing.

Lactation consultant was £200. And then some other bits like lactation tea and so on. Combined with the stuff we needed for formula it probably came to around £1000.

@Magicalwoodlands

£1000 on nursing bras!? How many did you buy?

Nursing bras and pads. I used reusable pads but needed about 30 pads as I went through about 4 per day per boob and they take ages to dry. Feeding bras, I had day time and night time ones (night to keep the breast pads in and save the bed sheets) I'd frequently leak through my pads, so they needed changing daily so I'd have 4 on the go at the time but combine the increased washing (I'll buy around 4 normal bras a year at £35 per bra and wear for 2 or 3 days, sometimes more- small boobs and not sweaty) but daily washing made them wear out more frequently so needed more per year, I also changed size a few times because I gained so much weight from being constantly ravenous. And I'm an odd size (28ff-30ff) so choice is reduced. So I had 5 or 6 night bras and 12+ day bras over a year, probably more I didn't keep track.

I know some people find Bfing is 'free'. The trouble is, it's incredibly uncertain - and it even varies from one baby to the next. I had no idea at all it might even have costs involved as I'd specifically been told at the NHS BFing class it was free. So families are going into it with no idea that it might cost a huge amount.

I used one of the more expensive brands and it never came to more than £5 a week on formula (for 50/50 combi-feeding) although the tub has gone up a £1 since then, so £5.50 a week now! If I'd used one of the own brand ones it would have worked out even cheaper.