We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

I’m not a huge fan of the ‘baby moon’ suggestion, as it doesn’t help a poor latch, which is the main barrier.

However, if cost is the deciding factor, formula is far more expensive than the things you mention above.

I've done both - formula is about double the cost of BFing (much to my surprise). The basic cost is about the same (in terms of buying calories to be consumed) but then the extra costs associated with BFing soon add up.

BFing costs are also heavily front-loaded - we'd forked out more than £200 in the first fortnight for BFing, having been told it was 'free' antenatally.

I spent more than most on a lactation consultant and a breast pump and lactation tea (I was desperate) but still only around the cost of a months worth of formula.

Tub of formula per week = approx £10. That's £260 for first six months.

Extra calories for BFing = £7+ per week
Four nursing bras = £40
Four secondhand tops with access as didn't possess anything suitable and winter baby = £25
Breast pump to try and force milk in = £120
Nipple cream = 2 x £11.
Taxi fares to hospital for emergency readmission with dehydration = £35
Bus fares for DH to visit us in SCBU because of readmittance = £15
Weekly trip to BFing support and parking there = £5 per week

Even if you factor in a few bottles (£7) and a secondhand steriliser (£5) which I needed for both formula and breastmilk the cost of the BFing far exceeds that of using formula.

I didn't get sucked into the gimmicky BFing supplements, accessories or need to pay for a lactation consultant as there was one at the hospital and at the BFing support group but I know women who've spent £100s on all that in addition.

@Magicalwoodlands

I spent more than most on a lactation consultant and a breast pump and lactation tea (I was desperate) but still only around the cost of a months worth of formula.

Our formula was £8 a tub - even if I got through three a week that’s still under £100 a month.

I spent double that on feeding bras, breastfeeding vests etc, breast pads, nipple creams etc whilst I was still pregnant and thinking I’d be able to manage it. Plus the pump we bought - can’t even bring myself to think how much that was now, hundreds.

A lactation consultant was a step too far for us, certainly much more than a few tubs of formula. We did look into it, couldn’t find anyone who wasn’t absolutely ridiculously priced prepared to see us as it was lockdown, and even the crazy priced ones would have been over zoom which I just don’t think would have achieved anything.

I did of course have to buy sterilisers, bottles etc which were another cost, and am sure that FF overall worked out much more expensive, but it was much easier finding £8 a week than the upfront cost of a lactation consultant etc.

I also think though that most new mothers have no idea what is normal with regards to a breastfed baby. Even the language such as "shouldn't be allowed to leave hospital without establishing breastfeeding" when the reality is it takes 6-12 weeks to truly establish. Red book weight charts were changed to take in to consideration higher weight children (due to increased maternal nutrition and health) and at the same time acceptable weight loss was changed to reflect higher instances of formula fed infants - 10% is very normal for breastfed infants but the point at which formula top up is insisted on because of current weight charts and other factors are dismissed (IV fluid use in mother's during labour resulting in higher weight babies from fluid retention, wet nappies, alert babies etc). Add in failure to spot tongue tie, lack of community breastfeeding support, cultural expectations of babies NOT being hungry, be able to be left longer between feeds etc and it all sets new mothers up to fail.

No wonder there's such a high rate of women who feel they were unable to breastfeed. They aren't appropriately supported, NCT and such doesn't set them up well either as it talks all about the benefits and considerably less about mechanics and what's normal.

Obviously even with support not all who want to breastfeed could do, but it would be a smaller number.

And then of course there's women who simply don't want to breastfeed and the should be allowed to just say that and not feel the need to invent reasons they didn't.

Just to be clear here, @RidingMyBike and @AliasGrape, are you honestly making a case that breastfeeding is comparable in costs to formula feeding?

Because when you throw in things like taxi fares, that is a very spurious argument.

@Magicalwoodlands

I’m not a huge fan of the ‘baby moon’ suggestion, as it doesn’t help a poor latch, which is the main barrier.

However, if cost is the deciding factor, formula is far more expensive than the things you mention above.

Sometimes poor latch fixes itself though as babies jaw gets bigger, or mother and baby work better together. Time etc.

Time isn’t much loved by healthcare professionals, and a lot of babies will not breastfeed after getting used to the bottle.

@Magicalwoodlands

Just to be clear here, *@RidingMyBike and @AliasGrape*, are you honestly making a case that breastfeeding is comparable in costs to formula feeding?

Because when you throw in things like taxi fares, that is a very spurious argument.

I’m not sure if you actually read my post but I clearly said ‘I’m sure formula feeding worked out much more expensive overall’.

I just took issue with you saying a lactation consultant was less than a month’s worth of formula - a months worth of formula even if I wildly overestimate how much we used, wouldn’t have come to £100. An initial consultation with a lactation consultant via zoom in lockdown was more than that, without factoring in any follow up support I might have needed. A bridge too far for us at that point - in terms of money and frankly energy, I was pretty broken by that point.

I can certainly see how mothers struggling would think £8 for a tin of formula for the week was more manageable than the upfront cost of a lactation consultant, even if the overall costs over 12 months are more.

I can absolutely see how a tub of formula is less of an initial cost than a lactation consultant, but then we are surely agreeing, that people shouldn’t have to pay hundreds of pounds and have lactation consultants - support in establishing breastfeeding should be a given.

You are right, I did miss you saying that it worked out more expensive overall, so apologies for that!

But I have seen this argument before - people insisting that breastfeeding somehow costs the same as formula because of bras and special clothing and it really doesn’t!

[quote Yoyomelon]@Glassofshloer I agree!! That's my point Most are not breastfeeding because they don't want to breastfeed. But if you read through the comments on this thread, the amount of people saying "the thing you don't get is the it's not a choice for most people" ..... I feel like a lot of people are not owning the fact that they made a choice. A choice that was best for themselves and their baby in that moment in time but a choice nonetheless.[/quote]
I can assure you that when nothing comes out of your breasts, despite the best efforts of midwife, HV, La Leche League, NCT BF person, BF drop-in at Sure Start, lactation consultant, tests by GP on hormone levels, pumping endlessly, a supplemental nursing system and more I can’t even remember, it’s very easy to grasp that it’s not a choice, despite having WHO stats quoted at me about how statistically unlikely it was that I couldn’t actually BF.

Clearly, like @MeanWeedratStew, I should have moved to Croatia.

@JadeTrinket obviously there are people who's bodies don't work like they are supposed to but there is no way that cases like yours make any kind of dent in the 76% of people that don't breastfeed.
Our bodies are made to do it like a heart beating or lungs breathing. Cases where no milk is produced are really really rare.

Ugh everyone knows the benefits. I tortured myself to feed my twins by breastfeeding. When I see their little mate twins now whose mums didn't put themselves through this shit I wonder why

@Magicalwoodlands

I can absolutely see how a tub of formula is less of an initial cost than a lactation consultant, but then we are surely agreeing, that people shouldn’t have to pay hundreds of pounds and have lactation consultants - support in establishing breastfeeding should be a given.

You are right, I did miss you saying that it worked out more expensive overall, so apologies for that!

But I have seen this argument before - people insisting that breastfeeding somehow costs the same as formula because of bras and special clothing and it really doesn’t!

Oh yes, definitely agree with you on that - nobody should have to pay hundreds for a lactation consultant.

To be honest it wasn’t really the cost that stopped us, partly lockdown and not being able to find anyone who would come to the house and thinking well it’s a stretch financially anyway, but it’s REALLY a stretch for a zoom call. But I think by that point I was pretty broken, I’d been repeatedly telling people I wanted to breastfeed but no support was forthcoming, I’d been a week on an overcrowded and understaffed postnatal ward during Covid. I’d held out every last shred of hope for this magical woman from the feeding team who was going to come and help me, only for her to be surly, abrupt and to treat me like I was an annoyance who clearly wasn’t trying hard enough, I’d not slept in days more than a hour at a time due to the constant fruitless attempts at breastfeeding and pumping that produced nothing. I’d had a crash EMCS, sepsis, high blood loss, couldn’t introduce my baby to any friends or family, the PND was really taking hold and finding/ engaging and paying for a lactation consultant out of our maternity savings which were already much depleted due to events around Covid - I just didn’t have it in me at that point.

That sounds sooooo ‘woe is me’ and it’s really not meant to. I’ve been reflecting that a few of my posts on this thread are like that and I clearly feel like I still need to justify something which I know I don’t really. But it’s also just meant in an illustrative way - in that with all that going on why should it be on the new mother’s to also go out searching for and paying for help? Why isn’t it more freely available? Why isn’t it more obvious?

It’s pretty postcode dependent too I think. Ironically I decided to have my baby at the hospital I’d been under for fertility treatment even though where I live i would have more normally gone to a different hospital - it’s different trusts/ health authorities although pretty much equidistant to my house. Anyway the feeding support in my hospital was absolutely none existent apart from the one surly cross woman who pushed a pump at me and never returned. As it turns out, there is MUCH more support available in the hospital trust where I live, and I could probably have still accessed it after discharg, except I didn’t know that, and nobody told me. By the time I realised we were already well established with FF and I felt like I was just being silly still moping about my failure to breastfeed. I wish I’d pushed a bit harder - but at the same time why did I have to? I was so ill, why was it incumbent upon me?

AliasGrape that sounds really tough.

I do wish that people (postnatal staff, GPs etc) were more aware of and more open to informal support such as peer supporters - they're almost always free. I do think there's an over-reliance on "professionals" when lots of particularly hospital based feeding support aren't much better trained than a peer supporters, they just happen to also be paid to do it as part of their job.

It doesn’t sound woe is me at all I relate to a lot of what you posted. I had a lockdown baby, EMCS and although we did see a lactation consultant it was a bit of a car crash. It does still upset me now.

I know I can get a bit ranty about this subject but while I absolutely support any woman’s right to choose, it should be a choice, not formula feeding because she has to.

[quote Yoyomelon]@JadeTrinket obviously there are people who's bodies don't work like they are supposed to but there is no way that cases like yours make any kind of dent in the 76% of people that don't breastfeed.
Our bodies are made to do it like a heart beating or lungs breathing. Cases where no milk is produced are really really rare.[/quote]
Are they? What is the percentage?

I think a lot of women mistake the initial colostrum for no milk.

@Magicalwoodlands

I’m not a huge fan of the ‘baby moon’ suggestion, as it doesn’t help a poor latch, which is the main barrier.

However, if cost is the deciding factor, formula is far more expensive than the things you mention above.

No it’s not, not in all instances or at least the cost of formula is spread out.

My experience:
Breast pump :£200
Tongue tie assessment and division #1: £250
Medical grade pump : £100
IBLBC consultation as DD was faltering growth: £200
Second private tongue tie division : £250
Follow up IBLBC consultation: £100

In 3 months just to make breastfeeding work I spent £1000, I’m lucky and was able to Chuck money at it, not everyone Is in that position.

I’m not even touching on the emotional cost

@5128gap a quick Google search says 12-15% for "disrupted lactation" some of these can be resolved others cannot but even if we go with the higher number that still leaves 61% of women in the UK who are not breastfeeding for reasons other than no milk.
So despite the responses on this thread there is very little chance that many ppl on the OPs social media would fall into that category.

[quote Yoyomelon]@JadeTrinket obviously there are people who's bodies don't work like they are supposed to but there is no way that cases like yours make any kind of dent in the 76% of people that don't breastfeed.
Our bodies are made to do it like a heart beating or lungs breathing. Cases where no milk is produced are really really rare.[/quote]
But cases where not enough is produced are much greater.

Our bodies are made to do it like a heart beating or lungs breathing

I really wish that was the case, it would have been fantastic. Your heart beating and lungs breathing take no thought or effort and just happen. If BF was like that then happy days, I'd not have had a very hungry baby or feared for my mental health because of it.

[quote Yoyomelon]@Glassofshloer as i said in my post all reasons are valuable. I'm just a bit cynical about the "it wasn't a choice" brigade. If 76% of women couldn't produce milk humanity wouldn't have lasted very long.[/quote]
This is not a logical position. When I couldn't manage it, I looked around quite a lot and found multiple references to women praying for a good milk supply and wet nursing other's babies (not just in the rich folk buying this sort of way). We are group animals so don't need to each be able to individually do something for our species to survive. Plus there were multiple references to v. v. early initial weaning.

[quote Yoyomelon]@Glassofshloer I agree!! That's my point Most are not breastfeeding because they don't want to breastfeed. But if you read through the comments on this thread, the amount of people saying "the thing you don't get is the it's not a choice for most people" ..... I feel like a lot of people are not owning the fact that they made a choice. A choice that was best for themselves and their baby in that moment in time but a choice nonetheless.[/quote]
What a nasty judgemental thing to say. How horrid to say this to the number of women on here who were, and perhaps remain, very sad at not being able to do this.