We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

What really bothers me with the well-meaning "breast is best" stuff is the assumption that those of us who formula fed our babies actually had a choice. Many of us didn't. There are many physical issues that can get in the way of breastfeeding, and despite what your HV will tell you, very little support available when it isn't working.

We all know breast is the best option, but for some of us it was no option at all. So OP, asking if posting a study you've read will encourage more women to choose BFing? Well, maybe, if they actually have that choice. But for me... Well, all the studies in the world won't make my breast tissue increase, but it will remind me that I failed at the first hurdle of motherhood.

It's your SM, so post what you want, but please stop with the assumption that formula is something the mother chooses. I think by and large mothers who succeed at breastfeeding have zero idea of how painful it is for those of us who tried and failed.

The majority of people really don't give a shit how others feed their kids. Only a small amount of people tend to get offended by these things IME, and they're generally easy to offend anyway

You only have to read the many many threads about breastfeeding on this very forum to know that’s not true . Many many women get upset and offended when their decision to bottle feed is called into question.

I’m not interested enough in breastfeeding to be actively reading articles or info about it, I did it because I found it easy and it was more convenient. I bottled my twins though for the exact same reasons .

My advice would be - don’t offer unsolicited advice.

I was a young mum and I formula fed, however I do think breast is best. I didn’t manage to breastfeed for a few reasons, mostly I was knackered and it hurt so much during the breast feeding post-birth contractions after my C-section (that no one talks about). I feel like a lack of willpower, poor information and lack of “community”, is what failed me breastfeeding. I feel really bad about not breastfeeding, sometimes don’t want to be reminded of the benefits - that doesn’t mean everyone should stop talking about them.

My son has eczema and my dp was the only one out of 3 who wasn’t bf, and the only one with eczema. I can’t help but think it’s related to formula feeding. I’m determined to bf if I have another but I already know that if it doesn’t work out I’ll feel crippling emotions of failure. I think this is why a lot of people get unreasonably defensive when it comes to conversation around feeding.

@JunoMcDuff

It is baffling that they don't check for tongue tie as part of the newborn checks, obviously would be up to parents to make an informed choice about how to proceed if they did have tongue tie. I know why it's because they don't have enough resources, but so many people have to fight to get anywhere with having it checked and sorted out its shocking.

They do. Or are at least supposed to. They're just a bit crap at catching them, particularly posterior tongue tie.

And if women were taught how to spot tongue tie in their own infant (due to feel on the breast) it would help. There's also increased instances of tongue tie, thought to be linked to excess folic acid. I'm NOT saying women shouldn't take folic acid, just that tongue tie is more common than 100 years ago.

No. Factually inaccurate. There is no link between increased folic acid and tongue tie. The association of tongue tie practitioners also refutes this claim. The increased incidents of tongue tie are attributable to greater awareness and according to some over diagnosis but not folic acid consumption.

Women (in the uk at least) know the purported benefits of breastfeeding. They are rammed down their throats at every opportunity. Many of the alleged benefits (including the thymus thing you mentioned) are likely not a direct casual link.

So stop preaching to women. There may be benefits to breastfeeding but there are lots of drawbacks too and it’s a personal choice. Our bodies our choice

@Rno3gfr - I have bad eczema and I was breastfed for years as a child. Dd was formula fed and doesn’t have eczema. In reality the reasons people have eczema or not are many and even if breastfeeding was one it doesn’t have a long lasting effect.

Sibling studies show little difference between formula fed and breastfed babies when other factors are taken out. Let’s stop shaming women and stop the pseudo science.

@CayrolBaaaskin I completely agree with you that we shouldn’t shame women and a woman’s feeding choice is entirely her own, but the studies which demonstrate benefits of breastfeeding over formula feeding are not “pseudo science”. It doesn’t do anyone in the debate any favours to try to pretend that they are equal.

Why on earth anyone has any desire to put pro or anti breastfeeding posts on social media is beyond me.

If I wanted to find out some actual medical facts on the benefits/risks of something I would speak to a doctor or go to a reputable website (eg NHS).

What anyone else does or doesn’t want to do is ZERO to do with me!

I didn't breast feed because I had no choice. My daughter wouldn't latch on. I had many midwives help me but even they struggled. After many tears and hours of frustration, I gave in and formula fed my baby.

It really winds me up that a lot of people assume formula fed babies were formula fed because their mother didn't want to BF when in reality, all the mothers I've spoken to about FF HAD to!

I didn't breast feed because I had no choice.
Why this constant need for a reason as well? Even if you choose from day one to ff that's fine, bf has to work for both of you, there are two people in this relationship and they are both important.

I am very straightforward about the benefits/harms of bf/ff. I am also very straightforward that women have a right to choose what works for them and really don't get the guilt around it. We will do many, many things that are less than perfect for out children, I don't understand why bf has this special elevated place that mothers (never dads) feel uniquely guilty about.
Give up on the agonies over ff, you're going be giving them fucking Haribo in a few years (despite believing that'll never happen).

@Rno3gfr eczema is an atopic condition like asthma, hayfever and allergies. It has got nothing to do with breastfeeding. Please do not feel that way, yes give it a go, arm yourself with info and support before baby is born. But if it doesn't work out it is not the end of the world. A healthy thriving baby is the desired outcome always.x

@StarfishDish

I get you. I don't have enough breast tissue to sustain an infant, plus all of my babies were tongue-tied. The only "choice" I had was to either formula-feed my babies or let them starve. I've seen the assumption that FF is a choice from many on this thread, and I think it shows a certain privileged ignorance on the part of mothers who can BF. Sometimes it is a choice, but I'd wager that more often than not, it isn't. Not really.

@Boombastic22

Why on earth anyone has any desire to put pro or anti breastfeeding posts on social media is beyond me.

If I wanted to find out some actual medical facts on the benefits/risks of something I would speak to a doctor or go to a reputable website (eg NHS).

What anyone else does or doesn’t want to do is ZERO to do with me!

It's interesting because most Drs know virtually nothing about infant feeding, it's covered in the half day nutrition lecture they get, so you can imagine how little info they receive.

Why would anyone feel the need to post Pro BF posts on SM?

If you're promoting a support group then fair enough. If you're just being a sanctimonious busy body, don't bother.

@MeredithGreyishblue

Why would anyone feel the need to post Pro BF posts on SM?

If you're promoting a support group then fair enough. If you're just being a sanctimonious busy body, don't bother.

Why do people post anything on social media though? I generally have a low opinion of anyone who posts more than the odd photo or funny meme on SM (I don't consider mumsnet SM).

There’s a study from 2008 (I think Britten snd Britten) which is very interesting on breastfeeding mothers having ‘higher self-concept’, and scoring higher in moral worth, self-satisfaction, a sense of their own value as a family member, positivity about their appearance, compared to exclusively ff mothers.

I have no difficulty believing those stats because my self-esteem was on the floor when I couldn’t bf, in part because of all the moral discourse (and that’s what it’s become — an infant feeding morality) around bf/ff, and partly because it was one of the few things I’ve done in my life where a ‘choice’ was public and apparently available to be evaluated negatively by total strangers, and assumptions made about my priorities, laziness, lack of interest in my baby’s health, and in some cases actually communicated to me or other people.

Which is I think why I get a bit impatient with the ‘you go, brilliant breastfeeding mamas!’ schtik, because it feels like heaping praise on people who already know they’re doing the ‘right’ thing and are reaping the benefits in improved self-esteem, sense of their own moral worth etc indicated by the Britten study.

It's a sad fact that women on this thread feel not able to say.

"I FF because that's what was best for my family. " and that be the end of the story. No reasoning given and that be accepted.

You have to be tone deaf to ignore fact that even when women are saying I couldn't for xzy people, they are getting random strangers invalidating their experience or just being down right hostile. These women weren't asking for your opinion.
When you share your BB stories, they accept that. Why can't it be the other way around.

If someone asked me about Bf sure I would help give advice if asked , random people who didn't ask my for advice don't need information which they can gather for themselves from which ever route they deem comfortable.

Women lose so much bodily choices in pregnancy and birth already. The comment above stating all women should be forced to BF and only allowed to FF if a criteria was met is bonkers.

FF babies do on the whole sleep better, BF babies are given a better immunity passed down my mums milk. Both are positives. Both are choices, and you don't get a medal for doing one or the other.

People can talk about breastfeeding if they want. I personally wouldn't post about it on social media because I don't care enough about it even though I breastfed my kids.

We don't have to ask permission to talk about breastfeeding of all things.

There's no need to shame of course, if someone chooses formula. But also, let's grow a thicker skin rather than getting offended over something so silly as an article of health benefits.

How some people get through daily life is beyond me. It doesn't matter, keep scrolling or mute if you don't like it. Frankly don't know why anyone's bothered unless by it in the first place.

@GertrudeBElion

Women aren't idiots, we know about the benefits of breastfeeding.

What many women don't know however, is how they can manage to get their crying baby to latch on, at 3 in the morning, 9 hours post partum, when the midwife who was helping had to 'pop out' 55 mins ago to answer a call and hasn't come back.

Or how to cope with cracked. bleeding nipples and thrush, when their mother and MIL encourage them to 'just give a bottle'

Or how to cope with cluster feeding, exhaustion and night feeds once their DH has gone back to work.

Or how to find the confidence to feed in public when others aren't.

I BF three kids btw, but in this country we are nowhere near being at the level of BF support that new mums need imo

I think this is the crux of what women are up against.

I was fortunate enough to have a support group - not the NCT - run entirely voluntarily by local women. The midwives and Health Visitors were very willing to help too - but I actively had to chase and ask for that help. If you don't ask, you don't get.

The cluster feeding nearly had me on my knees. Those periods of exhaustion and lack of sleep were gruelling. This is the point at which many women believe they're not making enough milk because the baby is constantly hungry, and start introducing bottles. And this messes up their supply and they end up on bottles full time. I've seen this happen a lot.

And then there is the problem with British prudery. I'm convinced that a big part of the reason Scandinavia has a far better BF rate than we do is that they are more liberal and have fewer bodily hang ups than the more conservative Brits. There should be nothing shocking or controversial about feeding a child in public. I did it for a year without a cross word and with only one cross look (that I noticed), and it wouldn't have stopped me either way. But not everyone has the same confidence that if someone has a problem with a mother feeding a child, it's very much their problem.

Despite all the above, I will admit that the first three months were HARD. I've never been great on very little sleep. After that, it was a breeze: no supplies, heating or sterilization necessary and all we needed to get out and about were changing supplies.

The promotion campaign during pregnancy is a problem, too, when as soon as your baby is born you're given entirely the opposite advice. It should be recognised that support is necessary, as is investment in that support.

@Sometimeswinning

I also loathe all that “breastfeeding mamas you are amazing” stuff. Cringeworthy and insufferably smug.

Do you know a breastfeeding mum? I gave up pretty quickly as I'm fine with ff. Any mum who can do it and carries it on deserves a well done! Surprisingly not many babies latch and mum is a natural. Breastfeeding mums are brilliant! It's not bloody easy! Jeez, don't hate on someone doing their own best for their baby.

I hate it because:

a) it’s giving praise to the ones who have won the breastfeeding lottery and can do it. It’s like congratulating people for being rich. The people who need the encouragement are the ones who can’t do it.
b) It seems bizarre to celebrate something which is the result of a biological accident. Like patting a man on the back for being able to stand up and pee.
c) The word “mama” (used by English people to describe a new mother) makes me want to die inside. It’s so smug.

@StarfishDish

I didn't breast feed because I had no choice. My daughter wouldn't latch on. I had many midwives help me but even they struggled. After many tears and hours of frustration, I gave in and formula fed my baby.

It really winds me up that a lot of people assume formula fed babies were formula fed because their mother didn't want to BF when in reality, all the mothers I've spoken to about FF HAD to!

Even if it is a choice though, who cares? There are lots of reasons to make that choice. Lots of people do it because they want to be assured baby is getting enough milk, they want baby to get as much sleep as possible, they want to share feeds, they don't want to be stuck on the sofa for weeks feeding a baby when they have existing children who need them. Or they just don't want to. Which is fine.

'The word “mama” (used by English people to describe a new mother) makes me want to die inside. It’s so smug.'

Haha yes. You're not allowed to be a mama if you don't BF. You have to be a mum. Mamas BF and bedshare and refuse to cut their boys 'beautiful golden curls' and BLW and dress their kids in clashing patterned dungarees. Mums FF and sleep train and wean at 4 months with baby rice and dress their kids in outfits from Asda and leave them overnight with grandparents so they can have a night out

@SmellyOldOwls

Yes “mama” is basically code for upper middle class mums who have turned early motherhood into an art form.

You have to breastfeed, have to co-sleep and baby wear and have to buy everything from JojoMaman Bebe or Boden. It also helps if you have a husband in finance and you live in Wandsworth.

I irrationally dislike the term mama, but wouldn't say I related it to breastfeeding, just people who are overall irritating af.