We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

The problem is that the kind of person you're replying to won't often acknowledge that FF babies sleep better or that FF makes life easier for some (most) mums

I do remember getting confused because I was trying so hard to be a gentle, attachment type parent but it was made very clear I didn’t fit that mould (I’m thinking particularly of the gentle sleep book Sarah ockwell smith which was just one long exercise in feeling even more terrible about myself than I already did) because I couldn’t breastfeed.

But anyway, lots and lots of talk about how of course FF don’t sleep better that’s nonsense and you shouldn’t listen to it. But also you can’t cosleep if you’re formula feeding because formula fed babies sleep so deeply and can’t be woken. I do remember thinking you can’t have it both ways.

I genuinely don’t recognise this worldview where you’re not allowed to talk about the benefits of breastfeeding and particularly not on social media. EVERY parenting/ motherhood type account I followed in the early days was all ‘breastfeeding mamas you are amazing, you are doing the absolute best thing for your child who will probably live forever on account of your magical unicorn tears boobie milk’ then somewhere further down the comments ‘yeah formula is fine too if you have to’. I don’t even criticise them for that (I just unfollow because it still hugely upsets me) but in my corner of the world/ internet it’s just not true that you can’t discuss the benefits.

@Kendodd post emcs my first child lost 11% of his body weight on day 3 and he was fed 10ml formula while I expressed and a midwife showed me how to bf lying down. There is no way on earth I would doggedly refuse to supplement and risk my baby going hungry. As it turned out the small amount of formula triggered a dairy allergy and eczema.Said baby bf until 2.5 years with undiagnosed tt, reflux and eczema. I had people saying why not give formula ehh he will literally die. Age 8 and he still cannot drink cow's milk.

I have said it before I don't get why people take facts as criticism.

Breastfed one. Ff the other 2 because it suited me. Sorry it made zero difference. All fine. Ff is petty much on a par with ff. Breastfeeding is convenient and cheap. Ff is convenient for dad helping.

@AliasGrape

I also loathe all that “breastfeeding mamas you are amazing” stuff. Cringeworthy and insufferably smug.

@thepeopleversuswork for me it was an intervention. My baby had lost 11% of birthweight and he wasn't even 7 pounds at birth. They intervened, sat me down in hospital told me it wasn't working to feed formula. I cried but knew that was best. What we didn't know until age 1 was he had a posterior tongue tie. He was fed until 2.5 because they refused to snip after 1 year and at that stage all the associated challenges had been encountered. For us an intervention was needed.

I agree with @AliasGrape that I don’t recognise the worldview where you in which you’re ‘not allowed’ to discuss the benefits of breastfeeding. As I said up the thread, I was upset for a long time that my supply never came in at all despite advice, tests etc, and it often felt as though literally everyone was either telling me about how I should be bfing, or criticising my ffing, often complete strangers, who clearly felt confident enough in the tightness of their views to express them to a total stranger. I literally had a man sit down on a park bench and ask me why I wasn’t ‘feeding my baby properly’.

@mishmased

I’m sorry that sounds very stressful and in your case it does sound like a sort of intervention.

But surely using this phrase on a blanket basis to cover any scenario in which a woman feeds formula is pretty inflammatory.

We are talking about a safe, legal, approved product which has been used safely by probably hundreds of millions of women.

Yes there are clearly advantages to breastfeeding but positing formula as a kind or last resort for when all else has failed makes it sound like napalm.

Language is important. Yes people should be able to state facts that demonstrate why breast is optimal - as it undoubtedly is. But people coming on here, wide-eyed, and insisting they only want to help, just stating facts and then referring to formula as an “intervention”… can you seriously not understand how this will land for a woman struggling with guilt for basically feeding her own child?

@JadeTrinket

I agree with *@AliasGrape* that I don’t recognise the worldview where you in which you’re ‘not allowed’ to discuss the benefits of breastfeeding. As I said up the thread, I was upset for a long time that my supply never came in at all despite advice, tests etc, and it often felt as though literally everyone was either telling me about how I should be bfing, or criticising my ffing, often complete strangers, who clearly felt confident enough in the tightness of their views to express them to a total stranger. I literally had a man sit down on a park bench and ask me why I wasn’t ‘feeding my baby properly’.

I’m really sorry you experienced that!

I was the same - my milk didn’t come in either, I never produced a drop. I had every midwife on the postnatal ward having a good squeeze of my boobs at some point but nothing. The ‘expert’ from the feeding team wasn’t available most of the time I was there but the one time I did see her she thrust a pump at me and told me I needed to do it every 3 or 4 hours - which I did religiously the entire time I was there and continued with a pump I bought when I got home even though it meant basically no sleep for days on end because by the time I’d done the skin to skin, pointlessly attempted to breastfeed dd who wouldn’t latch on, then cup fed her formula because she needed to eat something and I didn’t want to use a bottle in case she got used to it, then pumped for however long on each side (never producing so much as a drop), had a little cry about how horrible it all was and then it was time to start the whole process again.

I went to a really fucking dark place. 16 months on I have the absolute best DD who has THRIVED on formula, so anyone who wants to tell me the way she was fed has not allowed her to develop ‘optimally’ - don’t make me laugh. We couldn’t have a closer bond (another thing I used to flagellate myself about) and she’s a picture of health and happiness. And yet I still cry when I read stuff like some of the posts on this thread, it still feels like a knife in the heart. However much people post ‘oh it’s just facts don’t take it to heart’.

Like has been said over and over again, it’s not more facts or MORE info on how great breastfeeding is that’s needed, it’s resources and help for those that want to but can’t or find it very difficult.

I think if I’d read this thread at an earlier point with my DD it might have tipped me over the edge. That’s not saying it shouldn’t have been posted or that people shouldn’t have the right to discuss it, whichever side of the debate they’re on. It’s on me for opening it in the first place and getting involved. BUT I hope if anyone reading is in the early stages and feeling like I did, I hope they see my post and see that your little one will go on to thrive too, you will have a great bond, you are a great mum, you’re not failing, you’re not ‘giving up’, you don’t need an ‘intervention’ or for anyone to give you permission, and you are not doing the ‘bare minimum’. It will matter so much less in a few months time, even less in a year and not even slightly (I hope, I’m not there yet) at some point in the future. Fuck anyone who doesn’t know how unbelievably low it can bring you, or who does know but it determined to keep bashing you about the head with their unhelpful ‘facts’ anyway.

@AliasGrape

Hear hear.

That thing about the "bare minimum" has absolutely chilled me to the marrow, tbh. Really genuinely shocked people feel like this.

I didn't breastfeed any of my children. I tried with my first but he wouldn't take to it. Had the kids close together so it wasn't really viable. Luckily it was in the days when nobody thought you were a lazy child abusing mother if you didn't breast feed!!

I struggled to breastfeed and went onto formula pretty much straight away. My baby was born during lockdown, I had to stay at the hospital by myself and DH wasn't allowed to visit at all. The midwives were so stretched so they couldn't offer support. and my baby couldn't latch so we really struggled. I was constantly told the benefits of breastfeeding, and made to feel like I had to do it but there wasn't the support to help. My time in the hospital was awful. I already feel bad enough that I gave up so quickly, sharing posts like yours just makes it worse. I would have loved to breastfeed if I could have or if I had any help available to me. Knowledge wasn't the problem, no help was.

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@AliasGrape

I also loathe all that “breastfeeding mamas you are amazing” stuff. Cringeworthy and insufferably smug.[/quote]
Yes posts like that are awful.

It is baffling that they don't check for tongue tie as part of the newborn checks, obviously would be up to parents to make an informed choice about how to proceed if they did have tongue tie. I know why it's because they don't have enough resources, but so many people have to fight to get anywhere with having it checked and sorted out its shocking.

They do. Or are at least supposed to. They're just a bit crap at catching them, particularly posterior tongue tie.

And if women were taught how to spot tongue tie in their own infant (due to feel on the breast) it would help. There's also increased instances of tongue tie, thought to be linked to excess folic acid. I'm NOT saying women shouldn't take folic acid, just that tongue tie is more common than 100 years ago.

@AliasGrape, I totally agree, I just don't see a world where you're not allowed to talk about the benefits of breastfeeding ... they literally print it on every formula packet and the website of every formula company! As though you are buying your baby cigatettes!

My milk came in perfectly but I still ended up unable to breastfeed due to undiagnosed tongue tie. My babies were put on bottles in special care despite me saying I wanted to breast feed every time I was asked. I then pumped for 12 weeks at home while I tried to transition them and I just didn't understand why they didn't seem to get any milk breast feeding, despite asking for help everywhere I could. It was incredibly gruelling, every feed I was breast feeding, bottle feeding, then expressing, the whole process took about 2 hours, and that was if I had someone there to help (the tongue tie caused them to bottle feed slowly too), and was repeated every 3 hours. When family illness meant I had to spend some days alone with my twins I just didn't have time for it any more and I had to stop. As you can tell I still feel I need to justify why I didn't end up breast feeding, the whole experience was so upsetting. I think if you've not gone through it it's hard to understand.

@Tonyschoco every single thread about BF/FF on here ends up in a bunfight. Every single one.

Knowledge wasn't the problem, no help was.

We need more support - initially from professionals but ideally from our own communities and we need more knowledge - NOT about the benefits of breastfeeding, but about the mechanics of it. The what to expect, the cluster feeding, the screaming, thrashing, 'starvation mode' infant.

As for sleep - I've had 1 dreadful sleeper, and 1 excellent sleeper (11pm-7am from 8 weeks), both breastfed, both same weight gains. I think that's luck of the draw.

I gave birth recently; my baby has a cleft lip and palate diagnosed antenatally so I knew for most of my pregnancy that she never had a hope of being able to breastfeed beyond a few initial syringes of colostrum. It broke my heart as I'd always wanted to breastfeed for a good stretch of time.

I know perfectly well what the benefits are of breastfeeding but having scientific studies put in front of me wouldn't/couldn't have made the slightest bit of difference to how or what I fed my child in the end.

I wouldn't feel shamed or offended by your SM post about scientific studies, but I would feel quietly hurt. I'd simply think that you were ignorant/oblivious to the challenges some parents face and not in the supportive spirit of the parenting community that I'd expect. I wouldn't appreciate the implication that I didn't do "the best" by my daughter by not breastfeeding her. I do the best I can by her every day by loving her as best I can. Posting links to scientific studies casually ignores the segment of women who can't breastfeed or never had the choice to.

I have no doubt that breastfeeding is as rewarding as it is challenging so it should be celebrated and I try not to let my sensitivity about my own journey with (or lack of) breastfeeding cloud that. I don't believe you should have to self-censor and I think you can post links to studies and be sensitive at the same time.

Perhaps if you feel passionately about sharing scientific studies, you could caveat it with an understanding that you appreciate that breastfeeding simply isn't a choice for some? Just a thought.

@JunoMcDuff our tongue tie was anterior, with heart shaped tongues, and the babies were 10 days in special care so plenty of opportunity to check them. One of the nurses even told me one of our twins had a "very gentle suck". Makes my blood boil looking back. The lack of training is shocking!

To be honest I think the worlds gone mad, you can't speak about anything with out fear of offending someone.
If you are stating a fact it's a fact please or offend it's the truth it doesn't mean everyone has to do it. X

People know

The endless droning on about it bores most people it’s a very mc obsession and now it’s the competitive who shall bf the longest

@Kendodd

Should I have just let my son die

Are we really getting that ridiculous? FFS the only people giving you a hard time for not breastfeeding is yourself.

You are unutterably disingenuous. On the one hand for some of you, formula is the ‘bare minimum’, but when a FF reacts emotionally because of these sorts of comments from some posters, you then mock them for their responses.

Posters setting other women up with certain posts and then criticising the provoked reaction when they come is twisted.

@AliasGrape

The problem is that the kind of person you're replying to won't often acknowledge that FF babies sleep better or that FF makes life easier for some (most) mums

I do remember getting confused because I was trying so hard to be a gentle, attachment type parent but it was made very clear I didn’t fit that mould (I’m thinking particularly of the gentle sleep book Sarah ockwell smith which was just one long exercise in feeling even more terrible about myself than I already did) because I couldn’t breastfeed.

But anyway, lots and lots of talk about how of course FF don’t sleep better that’s nonsense and you shouldn’t listen to it. But also you can’t cosleep if you’re formula feeding because formula fed babies sleep so deeply and can’t be woken. I do remember thinking you can’t have it both ways.

I genuinely don’t recognise this worldview where you’re not allowed to talk about the benefits of breastfeeding and particularly not on social media. EVERY parenting/ motherhood type account I followed in the early days was all ‘breastfeeding mamas you are amazing, you are doing the absolute best thing for your child who will probably live forever on account of your magical unicorn tears boobie milk’ then somewhere further down the comments ‘yeah formula is fine too if you have to’. I don’t even criticise them for that (I just unfollow because it still hugely upsets me) but in my corner of the world/ internet it’s just not true that you can’t discuss the benefits.

I read the Gentle Sleep Book too. Absorbed it all, determined that even though I FF I would be the kindest gentlest most amazing mum ever. 4 years on and I'm still cuddling DS to sleep and he also appears in my bed during the night too. 4 month old DD was unceremoniously plonked in her own bed from birth and given a shush pat when she complained and now she loves her own space and can even fall asleep on her own sometimes. Cheers Sarah Ockwell Smith for the shit advice

Oh, god, that all sounds appallingly familiar, @AliasGrape — the endless breast-pinching and fruitless pumping (problematised in my case by having the wrong kind of nipples) and never feeling able to go out, because there was no time between stints of trying. And during my efforts with a supplemental nursing system, just too much kit. And I agree it made new motherhood absolutely miserable and panic-stricken.

DS is now nine and healthy and gorgeous, but I only realised how much being unable to bf had affected me when I met a total stranger at a railway station on her way back from training as a bf peer supporter and ended up crying because I’d internalised so much guilt about it all. She was lovely, but my experience was that a significant minority of people were actively and vocally critical, and thought it indicated laziness, selfishness or insufficient care for my baby.

Which is not to say the benefits of bf shouldn’t be discussed. Of course they should — but I genuinely feel the benefits are so well known and thoroughly reiterated that you’d need to live under a rock to be unaware of them. And that ignorance of the benefits isn’t the issue anyway.

I also loathe all that “breastfeeding mamas you are amazing” stuff. Cringeworthy and insufferably smug.

Do you know a breastfeeding mum? I gave up pretty quickly as I'm fine with ff. Any mum who can do it and carries it on deserves a well done! Surprisingly not many babies latch and mum is a natural. Breastfeeding mums are brilliant! It's not bloody easy! Jeez, don't hate on someone doing their own best for their baby.

@Sometimeswinning

I also loathe all that “breastfeeding mamas you are amazing” stuff. Cringeworthy and insufferably smug.

Do you know a breastfeeding mum? I gave up pretty quickly as I'm fine with ff. Any mum who can do it and carries it on deserves a well done! Surprisingly not many babies latch and mum is a natural. Breastfeeding mums are brilliant! It's not bloody easy! Jeez, don't hate on someone doing their own best for their baby.

Thank you! How can anyone get offended by giving a bf mother a past on the back. And acknowledging it's difficult to establish breastfeeding.

Like, as an FF mother surely you'd agree bf is hard to start - to the previous poster? Why would this offend anyone- I mean, do you go and sulk if someone compliments your friend's hairstyle because it means you're ugly more?