We can't mention positives of Breastfeeding for fear of offending

[Silverclasp]

Recently there was an interesting thread about a husband not wanting his wife to Breastfeed (he wanted to give formula) posters were highlighting the positives of Breastfeeding (since this was the topic) but there was a response essentially saying that by pointing out the benefits that we are shaming non bf mothers.
It got me thinking that I actively don't speak about bf for this very reason, I feel like if the person I'm talking to doesn't bf it can be seen as "shaming" like I never post anything pro Breastfeeding on SM in case I offend someone. It's kind of ridiculous.
Interested in both sides of the argument.

So say I reposted an article on SM which stated that studies have indicated that breastfed babies have a larger thymus gland than formula fed babies and more tcells as a result. Would this be unreasonable and cause offence to non bf mothers?

@Babdoc

I get rather tired of breast feeding zealots shaming depressed exhausted new mothers who are already upset about their failed milk supply, or who chose to bottle feed to fit their personal circumstances. I'm a retired doctor and baby boomer. My generation was majority bottle fed and is the healthiest, longest lived generation in history. The benefits of breast feeding v bottle are minimal in the UK, and undetectable by adulthood. I see young mums worn out with cluster feeding and sleep deprivation, and frankly don't believe the game is worth the candle.

Interesting that a professional has this experience. I can't imagine a 60 year old woman being told, 'I'm sorry to tell you that you wouldn't have this condition if you'd been breastfed.' Without exception, every child I know who has been breastfed has either allergies, ongoing health issues or are just generally sickly children. Obviously only my experience, but I think another reason breastfeeding rates aren't higher is because in real life in the UK the benefits really aren't obvious.

@Babdoc

I get rather tired of breast feeding zealots shaming depressed exhausted new mothers who are already upset about their failed milk supply, or who chose to bottle feed to fit their personal circumstances. I'm a retired doctor and baby boomer. My generation was majority bottle fed and is the healthiest, longest lived generation in history. The benefits of breast feeding v bottle are minimal in the UK, and undetectable by adulthood. I see young mums worn out with cluster feeding and sleep deprivation, and frankly don't believe the game is worth the candle.

Interesting that a professional has this experience. I can't imagine a 60 year old woman being told, 'I'm sorry to tell you that you wouldn't have this condition if you'd been breastfed.' Without exception, every child I know who has been breastfed has either allergies, ongoing health issues or are just generally sickly children. Obviously only my experience, but I think another reason breastfeeding rates aren't higher is because in real life in the UK the benefits really aren't obvious.

@Puppyseahorse it is the culture in most developing countries. It is what have been done for generations. The knowledge of breastfeeding is passed down from mothers to daughters. Children grow up seeing parents, aunts, sisters, cousins breastfeeding babies. They share experience and offer support to new mums. It was all they knew about feeding babies until formula manufacturers tried to tell them that formula is better for their babies and promote a stigma that only poor people breastfeed. There is access to good water supply in a lot of developing countries but obviously not everywhere so saying a blanket statement that water isn't safe is untrue. In some parts yes they struggle for clean water but not in all parts.

There is also the push by formula companies that formula is better for babies which it isn't and that is a fact. Except in cases where mum is on meds incompatible with BF or due to IGT or whatever other reason.
Formula companies do not have the wellbeing of babies at heart they're more interested in profit and use language like breast milk research, close to breast milk to promote their product.

I wished people cared more about a clean water supply in those developing countries. Babies can be breastfed and the die age 2 because of unclean water supply.

I know so many people those babies have had major reflux or
with formula. Of course diary allergies can happen bf or formula fed, but it's not natural food to give babies treated cows milk.

@heliosunburg

I see young mums worn out with cluster feeding and sleep deprivation, and frankly don't believe the game is worth the candle.

You think breastfeeding in bed next to baby is more tiring then faffing with bottles?

And if you're right that it is, surely that's more reason to applaud these misters for sticking with it?

Applaud complete strangers for how they're choosing to feed their babies?

Too weird to even contemplate.

[quote Silverclasp]@Kendodd I'm surprised this one hasn't been deleted considering how outraged some people have been at the mere suggestion that the biologically normal way for humans to feed their baby has benefits to it.[/quote]
God you are so bloody up yourself

I fed my son formula as if I had continued my desperate attempts to bf he would have died. Plain and simple.

Fed is best

@Willyoujustbequiet Very apt username. You should follow that advice yourself.

Starvation is what would have happened to my baby if I didn't use formula. She had to be admitted to hospital with severe weight loss and jaundice, all because I was so determined she wouldn't have formula, which was all down to the "breast is best" brainwashing. At one point I was on the edge of breakdown with triple feeding and being practically a prisoner in my own home. The moment we switched to formula, the whole family started thriving. Formula absolutely was best for us.
Fed is best is a saying that hits back at the "breast is best" mantra, which has been hugely damaging to many new mothers' mental health and piles on the guilt by implying they don't want the best for their baby if they use formula. Why do people not grasp this and insist on being snide with the whole "fed is the bare minimum". It's like the people who say "all lives matter", thinking they're being really clever.

But no one is berating anyone that uses formula. They are merely stating the facts. There is no need to take other people's comments to heart. Breastfed babies get coughs and cold fact, breast milk is the biological food for human baby's fact, formula is also suitable for babies fact.

@Babdoc with all due respect I have found med personnel to not be very clued on breastfeeding. Have had instances of doctors saying there's no benefit to breastfeeding after 6 months which isn't true. I don't listen to doctors when it comes to breastfeeding unless said doctor is a lactation consultant. And I don't expect doctors to be experts in breastfeeding especially when they have never breastfed.

@Willyoujustbequiet

I do think the pendulum has swung a bit too far the other way. In attempt to ensure formula isn't shamed, I see a lot of people downplaying the benefits of breastfeeding on social media. The only militant perspective I've seen is from people who've chosen to formula feed without even trying breastfeeding.

I hate the whole 'fed is best' mantra. No it's not, it's the bare minimum.

Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.

* Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.*

I was told this too. That I was killing baby as he was losing weight and I should pay for formula; so after paying £150 for a lactation consultant in a last ditch attempt, who happened to be a big name midwife, I found out he had a tongue tie. The NHS clearly didn’t give a shit about my DS as the policy isn’t even to check for it but because a private mw spotted it, it was fixed. He began gaining substantial weight exactly 4 weeks after it was fixed. I do think one of the reasons why there is a wealth gap for breast feeders vs formula feeders is exactly this reason; you have to pay and be really dogged about anything related to bf.

@Ozanj

* Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.*

I was told this too. That I was killing baby as he was losing weight and I should pay for formula; so after paying £150 for a lactation consultant in a last ditch attempt, who happened to be a big name midwife, I found out he had a tongue tie. The NHS clearly didn’t give a shit about my DS as the policy isn’t even to check for it but because a private mw spotted it, it was fixed. He began gaining substantial weight exactly 4 weeks after it was fixed. I do think one of the reasons why there is a wealth gap for breast feeders vs formula feeders is exactly this reason; you have to pay and be really dogged about anything related to bf.

It is baffling that they don't check for tongue tie as part of the newborn checks, obviously would be up to parents to make an informed choice about how to proceed if they did have tongue tie. I know why it's because they don't have enough resources, but so many people have to fight to get anywhere with having it checked and sorted out its shocking.

This thread has become a sad divide between the band of ‘telling it like it is, ball-breaker breastfeeders’ for whom breast is vehemently best, and those women desperately trying to ‘defend’ themselves for using formula (or the ‘bare minimum’ as one absolute peach twat described it) for whom BF didn’t come easy, at all, or at a huge personal cost.

And that, right there, is the saddest thing.

@Ozanj

* Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.*

I was told this too. That I was killing baby as he was losing weight and I should pay for formula; so after paying £150 for a lactation consultant in a last ditch attempt, who happened to be a big name midwife, I found out he had a tongue tie. The NHS clearly didn’t give a shit about my DS as the policy isn’t even to check for it but because a private mw spotted it, it was fixed. He began gaining substantial weight exactly 4 weeks after it was fixed. I do think one of the reasons why there is a wealth gap for breast feeders vs formula feeders is exactly this reason; you have to pay and be really dogged about anything related to bf.

^ this right here!

@Tonyschoco

This thread has become a sad divide between the band of ‘telling it like it is, ball-breaker breastfeeders’ for whom breast is vehemently best, and those women desperately trying to ‘defend’ themselves for using formula (or the ‘bare minimum’ as one absolute peach twat described it) for whom BF didn’t come easy, at all, or at a huge personal cost.

And that, right there, is the saddest thing.

Absolutely this.

@Tonyschoco

This thread has become a sad divide between the band of ‘telling it like it is, ball-breaker breastfeeders’ for whom breast is vehemently best, and those women desperately trying to ‘defend’ themselves for using formula (or the ‘bare minimum’ as one absolute peach twat described it) for whom BF didn’t come easy, at all, or at a huge personal cost.

And that, right there, is the saddest thing.

Yep.

which is why I struggle to believe anyone posting something "highlighting the positives of breastfeeding" genuinely did so as an act of disinterested public spiritness.

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. If we really want to increase breastfeeding rates we need to provide proper support for women who find it hard rather than telling them for the millionth time something they already know full well and already feel shit about.

This thread is depressing.

The breastfeeding folk seem to be arguing with the formula feeding folk trying to educate them on where they went wrong and getting pretty nasty and it's leaving the formula feeding mums feeding a extra added lump of guilt on what many have described a traumatic time.

Problem is that a lot of advice isn't actually asked for. If my pal posts on social media "if you ever need help with breast feeding give me a shout " absolutely spot on no problem.

If that same pal posted the benefits of breast feeding on IQ of children vs formula , your posting it to educate people bit ICK but ok it's facts aren't attacks but I have to ask has it ever crossed peoples mind to think "if they wanted to know that I assume they would ask ? Or done their own research"

I say this as a breastfeeding mum. Celebrate your journey, absolutely fine but don't come along and offer unsolicited advice to women who clearly have been failed by the system, not because they didn't want to.

Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.

Absolutely no one is saying anything like that. What some of us are saying is that formula is something to be used under advice of a healthcare professional in exactly the situation you describe. Not as a “lifestyle choice”. It’s an intervention. That said of course hcps will support women whatever their feeding choices.

@IWouldntHavetoWorkatAll

Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.

Absolutely no one is saying anything like that. What some of us are saying is that formula is something to be used under advice of a healthcare professional in exactly the situation you describe. Not as a “lifestyle choice”. It’s an intervention. That said of course hcps will support women whatever their feeding choices.

No one is saying formula is a "lifestyle choice". And saying it needs to be used under advice of a healthcare professional and calling it, God forbid, an "intervention" implies that its some sort of controlled substance or something dangerous.

The language around FF is so sanctimonious and loaded. The clear implication is that its something to be used as an absolute last resort.

When in fact millions of women and their babies use it perfectly healthily. And at a population level in developed countries there is very little evidence that FF disadvantages children over the long term.

Can you not see how it makes women who have struggled massively with their mental health and watched their babies fail to thrive because they can't breastfeed if you describe something totally normal as an "intervention"?

JunoMcDuff Thank you for reminding me of the word cockamamie! Let's bring it back!

*Applaud complete strangers for how they're choosing to feed their babies?

Too weird to even contemplate.
*
...

@WorraLiberty

No, but thanks for showing us you lack comprehension. Pp said breastfeeding is harder. I said, often it isn't or at least not in my experience. My point was even if it was harder, that's more reason to support and big up breastfeeding.

I'm sorry nobody supported your feeding choices. Encouraging breastfeeding mothers isn't weird at all.

What some of us are saying is that formula is something to be used under advice of a healthcare professional in exactly the situation you describe. Not as a “lifestyle choice”. It’s an intervention.

@IWouldntHavetoWorkatAll do you think the above paragraph would make people who formula fed realise they made the wrong decision and declare how they got it wrong or encourage people to breastfeed? Do you feel spouting stuff like that is going to help at all.

Who else is included in the 'some of us'?

@IWouldntHavetoWorkatAll

Should I have just let my son die of malnutrition then? As I just didn't produce milk properly and he was losing more and more weight.

Absolutely no one is saying anything like that. What some of us are saying is that formula is something to be used under advice of a healthcare professional in exactly the situation you describe. Not as a “lifestyle choice”. It’s an intervention. That said of course hcps will support women whatever their feeding choices.

I’m really sad that you seem to liken formula to something like methadone or anotejr controlled substance.

You viewpoint seems to imply that women should be forced to attempt breastfeeding, regardless of their own mental and physical health and wishes, and that only once a health professional deems it absolutely necessary, could they be prescribed formula.

You’re more batshit that I thought if you think that’s the way to increase the prevalence of breastfeeding.

'But this spectacularly misses the point that by far the largest group of people who don't breastfeed are not feckless types who can't be arsed or desperately ignorant people who don't know. They are people who have tried and failed.

It's not a simple binary thing of people either being uninformed (and needing more information) or being too selfish.

Telling someone who has struggled for weeks and months with pain, discomfort, sleeplessness, massive challenges in adapting to any semblance of normal life that they are doing the "bare minimum" for their baby is just really really shitty.

This is what "fed is best" is about. It doesn't literally mean that any kind of food is preferable to breastfeeding. Any fool knows formula isn't better than breast. It's a way to get people to get things into perspective and support those of us who struggled with massively and allow ourselves not to have to beat ourselves up over it for the rest of our lives.'

This all makes so much sense. The problem is that the kind of person you're replying to won't often acknowledge that FF babies sleep better or that FF makes life easier for some (most) mums. 'Breastfeeding is so easy, just whip out your boob! Formula fed babies don't sleep for longer!' That'll be why 81% of mums start off breastfeeding and only 17% are EBF at 3 months

Should I have just let my son die

Are we really getting that ridiculous? FFS the only people giving you a hard time for not breastfeeding is yourself.